cross-posted from: https://reddthat.com/post/70827890
Few adult men are killed by adult women. Our fear is real
Welcome to Lemmy Shitpost. Here you can shitpost to your hearts content.
Anything and everything goes. Memes, Jokes, Vents and Banter. Though we still have to comply with lemmy.world instance rules. So behave!
1. Be Respectful
Refrain from using harmful language pertaining to a protected characteristic: e.g. race, gender, sexuality, disability or religion.
Refrain from being argumentative when responding or commenting to posts/replies. Personal attacks are not welcome here.
...
2. No Illegal Content
Content that violates the law. Any post/comment found to be in breach of common law will be removed and given to the authorities if required.
That means:
-No promoting violence/threats against any individuals
-No CSA content or Revenge Porn
-No sharing private/personal information (Doxxing)
...
3. No Spam
Posting the same post, no matter the intent is against the rules.
-If you have posted content, please refrain from re-posting said content within this community.
-Do not spam posts with intent to harass, annoy, bully, advertise, scam or harm this community.
-No posting Scams/Advertisements/Phishing Links/IP Grabbers
-No Bots, Bots will be banned from the community.
...
4. No Porn/Explicit
Content
-Do not post explicit content. Lemmy.World is not the instance for NSFW content.
-Do not post Gore or Shock Content.
...
5. No Enciting Harassment,
Brigading, Doxxing or Witch Hunts
-Do not Brigade other Communities
-No calls to action against other communities/users within Lemmy or outside of Lemmy.
-No Witch Hunts against users/communities.
-No content that harasses members within or outside of the community.
...
6. NSFW should be behind NSFW tags.
-Content that is NSFW should be behind NSFW tags.
-Content that might be distressing should be kept behind NSFW tags.
...
If you see content that is a breach of the rules, please flag and report the comment and a moderator will take action where they can.
Also check out:
Partnered Communities:
1.Memes
10.LinuxMemes (Linux themed memes)
Reach out to
All communities included on the sidebar are to be made in compliance with the instance rules. Striker
The overwhelming majority of men aren't doing that shit.
Any amount of men doing that shit is unacceptable.
Same as mothers committing infanticide, parental alienation, paternity fraud, rape and many other crimes.
Acting like an entire gender is guilty of the crimes of a few is inherently wrong and it is called collective responsibility, and it can also be played both ways, which is a complete waste of time.
It just leads to fighting, throwing blame around and it does not help bring solutions to the people actually suffering.
"but what about..."
Cool, we aren't talking about that right now.
If people pointing out shitty things that a plurality of men do upsets you, ask yourself why. Are you a part of that plurality? If no, why are you mad?
Because when problems affecting women are discussed, most people act like it is the end of the world, like men need to risk and even lose their lives to protect them, but whenever issues that affect men are discussed, we are met with dismissals such as yours.
If people pointing out shitty things that a plurality of women do upsets you enough to try to debase those concerns, attempt to throw shade and even attempt to paint the other person as someone who roofies women, then there is no sense in having a discussion.
It is the same regurgitated arguments that people who claim "kill all men" is not hate speech, and ridiculing anyone who takes issue with said problematic statement.
The number of women doing the things you mentioned and the number of men doing the things mentioned in this post are not the same.
I haven't seen any of that here, and I sure as shit don't see how my "date rape is bad" stance is the same thing as "kill all men"
To mostly quote you:
And that's exactly my original point. Whether we're talking about a large number of perpetrators or a small number, the people responsible for those crimes are the perpetrators, not their entire gender.
I'm not claiming your “date rape is bad” stance is equivalent to “kill all men.” I'm pointing out that the defense you're using is the same: Make a sweeping statement about men, then when someone objects, insinuate that their objection itself is suspicious rather than engaging with the criticism.
And the difference in prevalence doesn't really resolve that issue. We can acknowledge that certain crimes disproportionately involve one sex while still asking whether collective blame is appropriate.
More importantly, if the goal is actually to reduce these crimes and help victims, I'd rather see the discussion focus on things that can accomplish that: effective laws, enforcement, appropriate punishment, prevention, victim support, and making sure victims of all forms of these crimes have access to those things.
That's what I was getting at originally. I'm not defending date rape, and I don't think anyone here is. I'm questioning why assigning blame to a gender seems to be the first avenue rather than addressing the mechanisms that allow the crime to happen in the first place.
And your response just proves my previous point, having a discussion with you is entirely pointless, you respond like you were trained to escalate things and then play the victim, Are you sure you're not AI?
Anyway, feel free to reply, or don't. I am not engaging with you anymore.
Edit, typo
The scary thing is how many men no one would ever suspect of doing things like that do it.
And? Women still have to worry about this.
Hey. Hey, try this.
"The overwhelming majority of white land owning men in 1860 were not slave owners, therefore we should minimize the reality of slavery as a problem the slaves had. Maybe if the slaves had smiled more at white land owners, everyone would have been happier."
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/07/16/fact-check-social-media-post-underrepresents-slave-ownership-1860/7980243002/
Oh. Hey, don't quite work the same, right? Kinda like it's a societal and cultural issue. Oh... Huh, maybe it's worth a think first before you say things.
Edit: this is a comparison to show how not OK it is to wave away something terrible people do just because "a small group do it." It's made sarcastically. JFC, people, learn to read.
Only a white person would make a comparison this braindead
You really can't tell this is sarcastic? The quotes?
That might fault. Thought you were being dead serious. My bad
The overwhelming majority of men have failed to protect women from the bad men. Good men don't just not abuse women. Good men actively protect women from abuse.
Men have more physical power and more political power in the patriarchy. And with great power, comes great responsibility. Spider-Man uses his power to protect women from abuse. Every man should be like Spider-Man.
Spider-man is a vigilante who constantly fucks up and makes the system worse. He is also, and I cannot stress this enough, a work of fiction. Relying on the individual wills of physically and politically powerful men, even well-intentioned ones, is how we get to authoritarianism and fascism. The answer is not in individuals, but in systems.
In reality, the closst thing we have to Spiderman IRL is the NYPD, and we've already seen how ACAB.
The men with the most physical and political power are the ones abusing that power. The problem is the concentration of power, not men.
What happens when the "bad" men have more physical and political power than the "good" ones do in a system that allows those individuals to exercise that power unilaterally?
This dumbass literally used a fictional character as an example of ideal man lmao
So you're saying bad men hold all the social power in the man community, and good men are a political minority, if not a numerical minority?
I agree. And that's why people are scared of men as a political community.
"Men" as a "political community" is entirely a fabrication. Reality does not conform to the social constructs you are trying to impose upon it. This may come as a shock to you, but most men do not actually know each other.
In the last US presidential election, 45% of women voted for Trump even after all of the misogynist shit he's done, and 45% of men literally voted for a woman to be president (not including non-voters of course). A slight statistical trend, but certainly not enough to be able to predict who an individual woukd vote for based on gender alone.
Gender is a spectrum (or more correctly, a collection of a lot of traits, most of which are their own individual spectrums). That is not something I can selectively believe is true whenever I want to support my trans/nonbinary/gender fluid friends ans just conveniently ignore whenever it makes me feel good.
Racists absolutely love to cite statistics about violent crime in predominantly black communities. Do we say "good black people need to do a better job of holding the bad ones accountable?" Absolutely not, because that's prejudiced ans ridiculous.
If one trans woman sexually assaults a cis woman in a public restroom and JK Rowling starts howling about it... What do we do? Do we demonize all trans women, or even all trans people entirely? Do we start doing genital checks in toilets? Do we start to become afraid of trans people as a "political community"? What if it were more than one case? How many cases does it take for it to become a problem? The answer is: the question itself is fundamentally transphobic and invalid.
I think most progressives get it: its unreasonable to generalize individuals by their identies and pre-judge based on things they cannot control. However, there always seem to be some people who have a problem with that and want to hate others as a sort of "revenge". Right now it's in fashion to hate on men. In the past it's been white people, which I find particularly funny because "whiteness" itself is an incredibly recent concept and many "white" people in the US today would not have even been considered "white" 100 years ago. I've heard the occasional hate against straight and cis people.
Age is another one I see. People love to hate on Boomers, but most of the evil people destroying the world aren't Boomers. Trump, Biden, Obama, both Clintons, Bernie, McConnell, Peloso, Graham... All Silent Generation. JD Vance is a millennial. Elon Musk is Gen X (though it's even less relevant outside the US). Plenty of boomers are cool as fuck and have spent their lives fighting oppression to make the world a better place, while plenty of people from every "generation" have been shitty. The simple fact is that such generalizations are meaningless.
If there's an LGBTQ+ community, there's a man community.
It depends, would you consider Sam Altman part of the LGBTQ+ community?
Not the mainstream one. He doesn't hold any clout amongst most of us as a gay man. We don't listen to him; he's no gayfluencer. But Andrew Tate holds clout as a manfluencer.
Ah so these "communities" are just based on what an individual gets sorted into aor out of according to u/Grail
So are we supposed to like psychically detect instances of roofieing and Instant Transmission into the middle of shady bars to punch out evil men or what?
I recommend being an amplifier. Talk to the women in your life about what they need, and use your big loud socially privileged man voice to repeat it for them. You can be a political campaigner for women's rights by amplifying women's voices.
Thanks for the advice
Do you have suggestions for how we can go about doing this? If I see a man being an asshole I'll say something but it's pretty rare that any of the abusive shit women in my life have gone through has happened when anyone else was there to do anything about it. Usually their abusers wait til they're alone. I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm legitimately looking for ideas.
Call out the men in your life who act shitty.
You could offer to go out with your woman friends and family members to keep them safe. Cover their drinks while they pee, etc. Protecting others starts with talking to them about what they need.
Another thing you can do is be an amplifier. Listen to their problems, and then repeat what they say to other men.