1030
take their money and arrest those responsible
(thelemmy.club)
cross-posted from: https://feddit.org/post/1097575
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this post was submitted on 28 Jul 2026
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Who buys and burns most of the fuel they create and why?
The cause of this is not individual consumer choices, it is capitalism - it seeks to increase capital and nothing else. Capital does not care about the emissions of growing fruit in Central America, packaging in Thailand, and selling in Germany. It cares that you buy the fruit cup for more than they spent on it. And to make that happen, capital had to force wages and production to be depressed and scattered across the globe. And it's not going to waste money on making the processes themselves independent of fossil fuels so long as fossil fuel prices are low enough - and it keeps them low by constantly seeking more extraction for profit.
All these companies make things for people to buy.
That means the people buying the things are not blameless either.
If you want to have a conversation you'll need to reply to what I actually said.
I chose to explain to you why your comment failed to reply to what I said.
My comment directly replied to what you said. I numbered the bullet points, literally the first thing I wrote.
But you're defending consumer's choices to destroy the environment so you aren't replying to what I said you're replying to what you want me to say.
Your question was, "Who buys and burns most of the fuel they create and why?" and I answered it and explained how it works. It's mostly industry The answer is absolutely not simply "consumer choice", which is quite clear if you review my simple 2-point list.
Here I'll write it again:
The cause of this is not individual consumer choices, it is capitalism - it seeks to increase capital and nothing else. Capital does not care about the emissions of growing fruit in Central America, packaging in Thailand, and selling in Germany. It cares that you buy the fruit cup for more than they spent on it. And to make that happen, capital had to force wages and production to be depressed and scattered across the globe. And it’s not going to waste money on making the processes themselves independent of fossil fuels so long as fossil fuel prices are low enough - and it keeps them low by constantly seeking more extraction for profit.
Industry makes it for consumers to consume.
Consumer choice doesn't enter the equation consumers consuming does.
Industry makes it under the expectation to turn a profit. Overproduction is common and so is wasteful or pointless production. It doesn't even need to be "consumed" so long as they get paid. The US military constantly blows up "leftover" materials to ensure they get the same budget next year, for example. And most sales are between industries. How efficiently are those industries using all their purchases? Have you ever worked in a restaurant?
If consumer choice doesn't enter the equation then you've proved my point. Focus should be on the system itself that forces emissions as part of core economic activity.
Shell doesn't manufacture, store and blow up excess fuel and oil.
Shell does manufacture excess fuel and oil. Where else does it come from?
Shell does store fuel and oil including for the US military.
Shell isn't blowing up the "leftover" US military materials sure. Why does that matter here?
Shell manufactures enough for consumers to buy or for industry to buy so they can produce things and transport them for the consumer to buy.
They don’t just manufacture excess fuel and oil to blow up like your previous comment alluding to.
Shell manufactures to produce a profit it doesn't care who buys unless it is perceived as maximizing profit. Downstream costumers are companies, militaries, and individuals.
Shell doesn't care whether fuel is considered excess by a military. If excess fuel is used by the military to destroy something Shell manufactured it to do that. I think you're missing the point.
I'll be honest with you I feel like you're too hellbent on inserting 'capitalism bad' into this conversation to ever get the point I'm trying to make.
I don't think there's much point continuing this.
You're concerned that I'm focusing too much on capitalism in the global GHG discussion where you asked lazy questions to point fingers at consumers? lmao.
I'm not the reason you're not engaging in good faith in this conversation. Gotta get over this habit of blaming others for your personal disinterest.
governments and industry
industry is speculating. governments are oppressing people.
"there is no ethical consumption under capitalism" has to me always been a clear call to reduce your consumption within a capitalist system. yes, it is these shit heads who shackle us. but when we reduce our dependence on them we begin the breaking of our bonds to a system that kills thousands every year
So I should starve to death so that the multinational conglomerates never have to face any consequences? Miss me on that one.
this is in fact the opposite of what i'm saying
I always hate that most people are happy to blame corporations, forgetting we are consuming that's why corporations are creating.
yeah, it is like blaming china for a pollution, when that pollution is externality of cheap shit we buy from them. it is our pollution in the end.
that isn't an argument for blaming the end consumer, because that problem is not going to be solved from the bottom, but it is also childish to pretend like we, the consumers, are not complicit.
You should read Terry Pratchett's Boots Theory. Many people don't have the option to pay more up front to consume less, if there is even an option to buy a more expensive but longer-lasting item in a given market any more.
well many do and they will buy cheap shit anyway. and i am not talking about boots, i am talking about people who have a dog, which is clearly non-essential expense, and they buy him shitty toy from temu. is that rubber toxic? who knows, who cares, look how cheap it is!
Well said
I agree. It's obvious to me that it will never be a tidy "it's just them to blame" scenario but people really want it to be, regardless. I suspect the downvote crew will show up soon...
The corporations blame the consumer, the consumer blames the corporations and everyone gets to consume and profit blamelessly.
Wouldn't be us if they hadn't lobbied for decades against renewables
You say this like buying only from sustainable companies is something everyone can just decide to do, and there haven't been decades of lobbying and propaganda against policy that would make it possible at a collective level.
because not purchasing anything that is produced or transported with energy from fossil fuels means fucking off into the woods to starve to death naked in a hut made of mud and twigs
As if there is nothing in between "don't do anything" and "go live in the woods"
Exactly. Cutting out all net resource consumption is really difficult, but almost all of the difficulty tends to come in the second half. The first half is worth doing.
Somewhat counterintuitively, switching from a 15 mpg vehicle to a 20 mpg vehicle (and driving the same number of miles) represents a greater reduction in fuel consumption compared to switching from 20 mpg to 30 mpg. Side note, this is also why we probably should've always been talking about fuel consumption per unit distance rather than distance per unit fuel, but it's hard to change the conventions around this.
So there are a ton of examples of products that use far more or less energy than alternatives, or simple changes in time of day that can make a huge difference in fossil fuel demand.
I understand and agree with your general point, I don’t believe it’s counter intuitive but accept than many people do. In any case, you used range distance disparities too close together to be accurate with a shift from a 5 to 10 mpg split. I'll just covert to a unit per distance, as you referenced (gallons per 100 miles):
As calculated upgrading from 15 mpg to 20 mpg would take 1.67 fewer gallons to go 100 miles while upgrading from 20 mpg to 30 mpg would also take 1.67 fewer gallons to go 100 miles. Upgrading from 30 mpg to 40 mpg would only further reduce fuel required to go 100 miles by 0.83 gallons.
Again, I agree with your broader point, 15 to 20 being the same improvement as 20 to 30 is likely just as impactful and also accurate.
if there's a minimum amount of consuming fossil fuels that's required to continue to live in society, and the goal is to eliminate that, then we need change on a societal level. individuals alone cannot solve the problem, and therefore cannot be blamed for the problem existing
Sure there probably is a minimum somewhere, but most people are far above that minimum.