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[-] Donkter@lemmy.world 12 points 1 day ago

This is my new favorite way to say "Google it lmao"

[-] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 4 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

Most internet summations don't include the realization I read elsewhere, so I just left it as an the exercise for the reader.

Basically, it's this: You know how sometimes you have a bad day and are being a jerk? It's not "you" exactly, it's just all the shit you have to deal with. You just have to shift those bad days to your childhood, and have a lot more of them, and they have to be worse, and you have a person who is permanently a jerk. But, in the metaphor the boat, is that person any more an empty boat than you are on a bad day?

We're all, to a large degree, empty boats bumping into each other, pushed together by the many different currents of reality, so don't take so many things personally.

In this case, the priest is just a result of how he was raised, or whatever influences pushed him into this horrible life of gay conversion; and the good thing, of getting out, was also probably a result of influences pulling him away from it. So, also, don't get hopped up on people's ability to control their lives from some objective moral vantage point that does not exist.

[-] Donkter@lemmy.world 1 points 6 hours ago

See, I took the metaphor as: don't get irked by every event (boat bump) that affects you if you don't understand where it came from. Don't assume a human is controlling it when it could be an accident if you would just open your eyes and investigate. In this case I was assuming that maybe the pastor had atoned for his past by donating to or starting a charity or something.

So this interpretation of the empty boat being a metaphor for people in general is fine. It's an exercise in an aspect of stoicism (don't worry about people you can't control, you don't know what someone has been through etc.)

But to extend it to moral subjectivity is bizarre. I think you hide behind metaphor but the clear implications in the context of this discussion is that a closeted gay pastor who abused children can't be held morally accountable for their past because they had too many bad days in their childhood. What it boils down to is a platitude (I.e. that almost everyone is a good person in their own personal story), but the guy harmed other human beings.

I hope I don't have to spell out why it's heinous to imagine a world where everyone walks around not judging actions because they think all morality is subjective. It gives license to atrocious behavior.

[-] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 2 points 4 hours ago

You still can hold people accountable for their actions even if those actions were inevitable given their history.

But people obsessed with punishment like things to be simple. Bad people are born to bad things, etc.

[-] Donkter@lemmy.world 1 points 52 minutes ago

Right, so the reaction doesn't make sense given the context. The person asked if the pastor had atoned for their actions by reconciling with the people who's lives they've ruined, which is perfectly in line with holding someone accountable for their actions.

this post was submitted on 20 Jul 2026
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