▲ 933 ▼ If you can't explain why the rule matters, then I won't follow it. (thelemmy.club) submitted 2 months ago by TotallynotJessica@lemmy.blahaj.zone [M] to c/onehundredninetysix@lemmy.blahaj.zone 296 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[+] whoisearth@lemmy.ca 46 points 2 months ago (45 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source hideshow 54 child comments replies: [+] IAMgROOT@lemmy.wtf 39 points 2 months ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ilovepiracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 21 points 2 months ago Right lol poor kid. "Don't question anything, just mask and shut up so nobody thinks you're insufferable." Lowkey sounds like what the parent went through and views as the 'normal' way of dealing with being ND. permalink fedilink source parent [–] catsarebadpeople@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 months ago (33 children) Aren't you the guy who thinks some invisible, male entity created the entire universe? Did this male and masculine entity create evil and is he now powerless to stop it? Or is it that this invisible penis having guy actually enjoys the suffering and tortures souls for eternity? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 33 child comments load more comments (33 replies) [–] wrinkle2409@lemmy.cafe 33 points 2 months ago* Questioning social norms doesn't necessarily makes you an asshole, it depends on how it is approached. By not defying them we will remain stagnant, imagine the downhill slope we would end up on if no one ever questioned why a man shouldn't love another man or a woman shouldn't love another woman. People shut you down because many are intolerant to change and have their values under scrutiny is seen as hostile, but that doesn't imply compliance is productive. Of course, you don't want to this all the time, but teaching your kid to repress their displease of social norms doesn't sound good either. permalink fedilink source parent [–] chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 27 points 2 months ago (1 child) because if you want to succeed let alone survive in life the attitude needs to change or it needs to hide. Framing things this way is a big mistake and I don't see why it isn't more obvious to people that it's a mistake. You want someone you care about to believe that there is a binary choice between a sustainable existence and resolving their emotional needs? You couldn't make a more persuasive argument for suicidal thinking and self destructive behavior if you tried. And it isn't even true because they are mutually dependent priorities. It took me too many years and therapy to figure this out, you should really consider approaching the issue from a different angle than this one. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Clutter@sh.itjust.works 21 points 2 months ago Thank you. I'm glad some people realise that telling autistic people to adapt or die is an awful inhumane thing to do. Because for people like me, that is what you are asking us to do. permalink fedilink source parent [–] applebusch@lemmy.blahaj.zone 25 points 2 months ago social norms have reasons as well. you cant just say "because social norms exist" and expect someone to accept that answer as a reason. its basically the same as saying "because everyone says so". so why dont you explain why the particular social norm is one in the first place. if you dont know maybe you need to find out before you try to enforce it on others. also as an autistic person you shouldn't be encouraging people to mask. that shit is incredibly damaging to people. i masked for most of my life and what people dont see is that i was basically just surviving that whole time. i developed an incredible amount of anxiety, to the point where i couldnt really function in society for more than a few hours at a time before i had to isolate for a day or two to recover. i wore the mask so often for so long i didnt even know who i really was anymore. i didnt start to live until a few years ago when i started making a concerted effort to take off the mask and be myself. and you know what, people fucking accepted me way more than they ever did when i was being fucking fake all the time for the sake of appearances. you might mean well telling your son and all the autists who will see your comment to mask to get by, but all youre doing is fucking hurting them and you need to stop. masking isnt for us, its for you. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ProgrammingSocks@pawb.social 16 points 2 months ago* (1 child) "If you don't learn to adopt them you will isolate yourself" might be true if there was 1 neurodivergent person. We are a community and personally I'm not interested in being more than acquaintances if I have to mask around you all the time. That's not a mutually beneficial relationship. Autistics are constantly told this lie and it completely ignores the fact that there's plenty of other autistics that will understand and accommodate each other's needs. This is an ableist way to see the world and my lived experience directly contradicts it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] rumba@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 months ago That's awesome. Sadly, it does't apply to their kids PTA, their neighbors or their Jobs. There is some level of faking and coping that greases the wheels and lets you not have to swim through the raw sewage of every other 'normies' ignorance. Don't fold in and just give on every thing, but don't die on that fucking hill either. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Beehaw_Girl@beehaw.org 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (11 children) Perfectly reasonable but let's also recognize that some social norms exist only because of tradition, and are unnecessary & uncomfortable, these social norms need to be questioned & challenged & done away with. When enough people question them and challenge them, and eventually get rid of some unnecessary oppressive social norms, we can continue to evolve as a species. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments load more comments (11 replies) [–] Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 2 months ago When you tell your autistic child to mask you’re encouraging them to make their mental health worse: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/13623613251353358 permalink fedilink source parent [–] birdwing@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) As someone with that, I say, fuck off to that "authority". Social norms are to be broken. We didn't get Stonewall riots by following police and law and order. We didn't get women's rights by meekly letting men trample us. We didn't get general suffrage by not rioting. We didn't get the right to strike by doing nothing. I think the attitude you're being held back by, is more destructive. You're willfully following rules instead of questioning them, then deciding whether they are justified to follow or not. I think what you're telling is not a "harsh reality" but a fabrication that neurotypical people tell themselves to justify "following orders". Fuck that shit. If I did what you said me to, I'd be in a much worse mental headspace now. I feel sorry for your son. You blindly following social norms IS the problem. Try to address that instead. Try to actually understand why your son finds it difficult. Most of us find it difficult because the authority is not justified: there's no explanation, not even an imperfect one. We're instead told to just suck it up instead of hearing, "hey, yeah, you got a point." or even just engaging the discussion. Let it be the other way around. You go try to think if there's something that you both could agree as justified for a rule. If such a thing isn't there, then no need for the rule. Good authority doesn't flow from "because I say so", but from clear and justifiable rules. I'm not going to mask myself because others refuse to take others into account. I have plenty of good interaction when I am not forced into masking, and less when I have to mask. Let me ask you a question. Have you ever gone through what your son is going through with you now? Should a good parent not want to try to understand their child instead, rather than to force their own norms onto their descendant? permalink fedilink source parent [–] UnixSlvt42@piefed.blahaj.zone 2 points 2 months ago I'll take unloved and alone over your fake love. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (36 replies)
[+] IAMgROOT@lemmy.wtf 39 points 2 months ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ilovepiracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 21 points 2 months ago Right lol poor kid. "Don't question anything, just mask and shut up so nobody thinks you're insufferable." Lowkey sounds like what the parent went through and views as the 'normal' way of dealing with being ND. permalink fedilink source parent [–] catsarebadpeople@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 months ago (33 children) Aren't you the guy who thinks some invisible, male entity created the entire universe? Did this male and masculine entity create evil and is he now powerless to stop it? Or is it that this invisible penis having guy actually enjoys the suffering and tortures souls for eternity? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 33 child comments load more comments (33 replies)
[–] ilovepiracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 21 points 2 months ago Right lol poor kid. "Don't question anything, just mask and shut up so nobody thinks you're insufferable." Lowkey sounds like what the parent went through and views as the 'normal' way of dealing with being ND. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] catsarebadpeople@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 months ago (33 children) Aren't you the guy who thinks some invisible, male entity created the entire universe? Did this male and masculine entity create evil and is he now powerless to stop it? Or is it that this invisible penis having guy actually enjoys the suffering and tortures souls for eternity? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 33 child comments load more comments (33 replies)
[–] wrinkle2409@lemmy.cafe 33 points 2 months ago* Questioning social norms doesn't necessarily makes you an asshole, it depends on how it is approached. By not defying them we will remain stagnant, imagine the downhill slope we would end up on if no one ever questioned why a man shouldn't love another man or a woman shouldn't love another woman. People shut you down because many are intolerant to change and have their values under scrutiny is seen as hostile, but that doesn't imply compliance is productive. Of course, you don't want to this all the time, but teaching your kid to repress their displease of social norms doesn't sound good either. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 27 points 2 months ago (1 child) because if you want to succeed let alone survive in life the attitude needs to change or it needs to hide. Framing things this way is a big mistake and I don't see why it isn't more obvious to people that it's a mistake. You want someone you care about to believe that there is a binary choice between a sustainable existence and resolving their emotional needs? You couldn't make a more persuasive argument for suicidal thinking and self destructive behavior if you tried. And it isn't even true because they are mutually dependent priorities. It took me too many years and therapy to figure this out, you should really consider approaching the issue from a different angle than this one. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Clutter@sh.itjust.works 21 points 2 months ago Thank you. I'm glad some people realise that telling autistic people to adapt or die is an awful inhumane thing to do. Because for people like me, that is what you are asking us to do. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Clutter@sh.itjust.works 21 points 2 months ago Thank you. I'm glad some people realise that telling autistic people to adapt or die is an awful inhumane thing to do. Because for people like me, that is what you are asking us to do. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] applebusch@lemmy.blahaj.zone 25 points 2 months ago social norms have reasons as well. you cant just say "because social norms exist" and expect someone to accept that answer as a reason. its basically the same as saying "because everyone says so". so why dont you explain why the particular social norm is one in the first place. if you dont know maybe you need to find out before you try to enforce it on others. also as an autistic person you shouldn't be encouraging people to mask. that shit is incredibly damaging to people. i masked for most of my life and what people dont see is that i was basically just surviving that whole time. i developed an incredible amount of anxiety, to the point where i couldnt really function in society for more than a few hours at a time before i had to isolate for a day or two to recover. i wore the mask so often for so long i didnt even know who i really was anymore. i didnt start to live until a few years ago when i started making a concerted effort to take off the mask and be myself. and you know what, people fucking accepted me way more than they ever did when i was being fucking fake all the time for the sake of appearances. you might mean well telling your son and all the autists who will see your comment to mask to get by, but all youre doing is fucking hurting them and you need to stop. masking isnt for us, its for you. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ProgrammingSocks@pawb.social 16 points 2 months ago* (1 child) "If you don't learn to adopt them you will isolate yourself" might be true if there was 1 neurodivergent person. We are a community and personally I'm not interested in being more than acquaintances if I have to mask around you all the time. That's not a mutually beneficial relationship. Autistics are constantly told this lie and it completely ignores the fact that there's plenty of other autistics that will understand and accommodate each other's needs. This is an ableist way to see the world and my lived experience directly contradicts it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] rumba@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 months ago That's awesome. Sadly, it does't apply to their kids PTA, their neighbors or their Jobs. There is some level of faking and coping that greases the wheels and lets you not have to swim through the raw sewage of every other 'normies' ignorance. Don't fold in and just give on every thing, but don't die on that fucking hill either. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] rumba@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 months ago That's awesome. Sadly, it does't apply to their kids PTA, their neighbors or their Jobs. There is some level of faking and coping that greases the wheels and lets you not have to swim through the raw sewage of every other 'normies' ignorance. Don't fold in and just give on every thing, but don't die on that fucking hill either. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Beehaw_Girl@beehaw.org 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (11 children) Perfectly reasonable but let's also recognize that some social norms exist only because of tradition, and are unnecessary & uncomfortable, these social norms need to be questioned & challenged & done away with. When enough people question them and challenge them, and eventually get rid of some unnecessary oppressive social norms, we can continue to evolve as a species. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments load more comments (11 replies)
[–] Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 2 months ago When you tell your autistic child to mask you’re encouraging them to make their mental health worse: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/13623613251353358 permalink fedilink source parent
[–] birdwing@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) As someone with that, I say, fuck off to that "authority". Social norms are to be broken. We didn't get Stonewall riots by following police and law and order. We didn't get women's rights by meekly letting men trample us. We didn't get general suffrage by not rioting. We didn't get the right to strike by doing nothing. I think the attitude you're being held back by, is more destructive. You're willfully following rules instead of questioning them, then deciding whether they are justified to follow or not. I think what you're telling is not a "harsh reality" but a fabrication that neurotypical people tell themselves to justify "following orders". Fuck that shit. If I did what you said me to, I'd be in a much worse mental headspace now. I feel sorry for your son. You blindly following social norms IS the problem. Try to address that instead. Try to actually understand why your son finds it difficult. Most of us find it difficult because the authority is not justified: there's no explanation, not even an imperfect one. We're instead told to just suck it up instead of hearing, "hey, yeah, you got a point." or even just engaging the discussion. Let it be the other way around. You go try to think if there's something that you both could agree as justified for a rule. If such a thing isn't there, then no need for the rule. Good authority doesn't flow from "because I say so", but from clear and justifiable rules. I'm not going to mask myself because others refuse to take others into account. I have plenty of good interaction when I am not forced into masking, and less when I have to mask. Let me ask you a question. Have you ever gone through what your son is going through with you now? Should a good parent not want to try to understand their child instead, rather than to force their own norms onto their descendant? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] UnixSlvt42@piefed.blahaj.zone 2 points 2 months ago I'll take unloved and alone over your fake love. permalink fedilink source parent