you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] 83 points 4 months ago (45 children)

This is a shift Europeans are having to make reluctantly

Yes it was reluctantly at first, but I don't think it is so much anymore.
EU has shown to be better at handling a crisis situation than we ourselves expected, and unity in EU and Europe on the issue, has resulted in way less reluctance as programs are decided upon in unity, like the EU SAFE program that for instance Canada and Japan have joined.
The strong cooperation in EU and Europe in many areas has shown us that we can act with decisiveness in unity when it counts. And when pressured from outside, the EU countries can stand together.

More than at any previous time, European policymakers are having a crisis of faith in the American system itself

Abso-fucking-lutely!
The problem is not just Trump, it's the American population and the Republicans and the American dysfunctional democracy.

The two Franco-British-led coalitions of the willing, formed to organize European action in the Ukrainian and Gulf theaters, are cases in point.

Exactly, the success of the European determination to help Ukraine without USA is amazing. 👍 😎

  • source
  • hideshow 45 child comments
  • [+] -15 points 4 months ago (44 children)

    help Ukraine without USA i

    Has the USA stopped delivering weapons and stopped doing reconnaissance?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 44 child comments
  • [–] 61 points 4 months ago (20 children)

    Yes, all weapons from USA are now bought at a 10% surcharge by NATO countries that continue to support Ukraine, and the coalition of the willing.
    USA may help with things that cost them nothing, but as it is now, USA is profiteering extra from it's allies on weapon deliveries to Ukraine.
    Deliveries that are now even halted because of the war with Iran.
    USA has been zero help since Trump became president, where USA actually has helped Russia more, for instance allowing them full access to Starlink. Which was finally ended earlier this year.

    Fuck USA!!

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 20 child comments
  • [+] -39 points 4 months ago (19 children)

    Yes, all weapons from USA are now bought at a 10% surcharge by NATO

    So no, the US still delivers, they just made the EU pay for it.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 19 child comments
  • [–] 42 points 4 months ago (8 children)

    They made their 'allies' pay a 10% surcharge... and then spent the ammunition on a fruitless war with Iran instead. So, no, they are not sending weapons or ammunition any more.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
  • [+] -19 points 4 months ago (7 children)

    It just highlights the dependency on the US. To frame it as if the EU is fighting without the US gives the opposite impression.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Supporting Ukraine is peanuts compared to Rearm Europe, and none of that goes to the US.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago

    The US must own major shares in EU weapon manufacturers. They knew the war was coming at the latest when Biden warned about it, but more likely when Russia sent the green men or even earlier. They will get their share.

    The big picture is that China is taking over all markets and the EU is compensating by creating demand. It also creates the opportunity to go to war with China.

    From an American perspective, the more Europe builds its own capacity the better because everything will be needed to fight China.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    How would you call it? Fighting with or alongside the US? Or is it neither?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] -4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

    Trick question because I think we are fighting for the US.

    The usual link:

    in the meantime, it is imperative that no Eurasian challenger emerges, capable of dominating Eurasia and thus also of challenging America

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grand_Chessboard

    We are past that opportunity but the EU and Russia could have formed an economic union and could have become that challenger.

    Instead China is about to become that challenger. The US cannot isolate China if Russia is delivering all necessary resources. So the US is using the Ukraine war to weaken Russia to change that somehow.

    Buying the weapons is not a problem. Buying government bonds was the way of the EU to finance the US government weapons programs. With tariffs that has shifted to direct purchases.

    So to the EU it looks like we just defend Ukraine. But the big winner is the US because they achieve their long-term goal, which turns the with into a for.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    The usual link:

    The usual truncated quote. -.-

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    I hope that one day you will realize that there is no vision but only the goal to shape a corporate global community.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago

    I hope that one day you'll realise that quoting a part of a sentence from a book you only know from Wikipedia and treating that as the undisputed truth, while ignoring all other parts left and right from it that collide with your set-in-stone world view proves nothing more than you don't believe what you see but rather see what you believe.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 17 points 4 months ago* (9 children)

    Just a couple of lines below:

    Deliveries that are now even halted because of the war with Iran.

    So no, even when profiteering extra from it, USA is unreliable.
    Why are you always like this? Always with something stupid that is clearly false?!?!

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 9 child comments
  • [+] -8 points 4 months ago (8 children)

    Deliveries that are now even halted because of the war with Iran.

    Do you have a source for that? They have haltet rockets for the Patriot system because there is a shortage. But there is no general stop like in 2025.

    Recent news are about increased delivery.

    To keep the Ukrainian armed forces supplied for the fight against Russia, NATO allies purchase complex weapons from the US through

    https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2026/05/21/nato-ministers-meet-as-us-plans-to-pull-away-from-european-security

    1. Mai 2026 The US State Department approved a potential $373.6-million sale of Joint Direct Attack Munition-Extended Range tail kits to Ukraine.

    https://thedefensepost.com/2026/05/06/us-jdam-er-ukraine/

    Why are you always like this? Always with something stupid that is clearly false?!?!

    I think I could demonstrate that it is correct. There are still deliveries. If that makes me look stupid I have to live with it.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    https://abcnews.com/Politics/zelenskyy-us-moved-20000-missiles-fight-drones-ukraine/story?id=122662585

    US diverting 20,000 missiles promised for Ukraine to the Middle East

    So despite these missiles were already bought and paid for even at a 10% surcharge, Trump and Pentagon decided to not honor the deal.
    There may still be deliveries, but USA has once again shown they are not a trustworthy ally, and they are not even a trustworthy supplier.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (4 children)

    Trump and Pentagon decided to not honor the deal.

    That's one weapon system. It doesn't change that the US is still a, or even the major weapon supplyer.

    The rockets were more urgently needed in the middle east. The US can be blamed for many things but that decision is understandable.

    USA has once again shown they are not a trustworthy ally,

    No doubt about that.

    There's an old saying in Tennessee—I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee—that says, 'Fool me once, shame on...shame on you.' Fool me—you can't get fooled again."

    To know the history of the US and to expect to be treated differently than the Philippines is a risky move.

    Furthermore, the EU won't be stable for long. If Russa and China are eliminated, what will the EU be for the US strategically but a challenger?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grand_Chessboard

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    EU and China are the most stable regions in the world. There is absolutely no chance China will be "eliminated".
    The Russian federation may collapse, but I can't see how that would impact EU negatively? Russia has been trying to destabilize Europe for decades, not having that problem anymore, would definitely be an advantage for EU.

    EU has strong cooperation with some of the former Soviet states, the same will probably happen if the Russian federation collapses. Making life a little bit easier for EU, and EU most likely making new friends.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    no chance China will be “eliminated”. The Russian federation may collapse

    Without Russia, the US can shut down China with a naval blockade.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_island_chain

    The Russian federation may collapse, but I can’t see how that would impact EU negatively?

    About 2001 Putin offered to create a joined economic zone between EU and Russia but the EU declined. Now the best case scenario would be Russia crumbling, and joining the EU. What's the difference? Was Russia so corrupt that we couldn't make it happen, even not with a plan that layed out steps to end the corruption?

    The US doesn't accept a challenger in Asia. The US is a naval power that controls the world by controlling the shipping lanes. If the EU would span over Asia no shipping would be needed. The US would lose their power. To prevent that the EU will be destroyed should it have the possibility to achieve that. It could already be happening.

    https://www.dw.com/en/will-trump-pull-italy-austria-poland-hungary-from-eu/a-75134777

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    About 2001 Putin offered to create a joined economic zone between EU and Russia

    Putin Offered. 🤣🤣🤣

    For fucks sake, as if it is up to Russia to "offer" EU to be part of their economic zone. 🤡🤡🤡

    Goddam you are far gone.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    The reaction must have been the same in 2001. That arrogance will cost us dearly because now it's China that is getting Russia's resources.

    We will try to prevent it, that's why we have Readiness 2030. Russia doesn't need more land, but the US cannot let China and Russia join forces or they will lose their hegemonial position.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    There are no longer delivered support between allies, they only now deliver sold products to their customers.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] -4 points 4 months ago

    Before they were paid in mining rights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93United_States_Mineral_Resources_Agreement and Germany buying US government bonds.

    After the tariffs, they don't want a trade deficit, so the money is spent directly.

    The war is still coordinated from their base in Wiesbaden. (German) https://www.hessenschau.de/politik/nach-trump-ankuendigung-wiesbaden-vorerst-nicht-von-us-truppenabzug-betroffen-v1,kein-truppenabzug-in-wiesbaden-100.html

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] [S] 29 points 4 months ago (8 children)
  • [+] -19 points 4 months ago (7 children)

    Looks like the US is still fighting much of the war, but the EU is financing it.

    In December, Budanov said Kyiv remained critically dependent on Washington for intelligence, including satellite imagery and early warning systems for ballistic missile launches.

    A French defence ministry official also declined to comment directly on the president’s claims, but said much of the intelligence France provides is technical in nature.

    Despite strained relations between Washington and Kyiv, there has been no indication that the United States has sharply reduced its intelligence support for Ukraine.

    Europe finances 100%, but how much is used to buy weapons from the US? 50%?

    The 34 countries of the Coalition of the Willing are financing “100 percent” of the resources granted to Kyiv, including financial support, Macron said.

    The US hasn't stopped all weapon delivery.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
  • [–] 16 points 4 months ago* (3 children)
  • [–] -3 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    They still provide weapons, however I don't know the terms of the new agreement passed last year.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-us-weapons-prince-harry-f02a45281ba095d35cf5a198710be8e3

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [+] -8 points 4 months ago

    Yes, the aid part. But they are still delivering the weapons.

    the officials who are would likely better understand the value of Ukrainian territory.

    I am sure they do.

    Trump or rather the US elite have decided to end the trade deficit. Making the EU buy all these weapons balances all the products that the US needs from Europe.

    They still need to beat Russia to isolate China. Having the EU fully committed to the war makes that easier.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] [S] 7 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Well, I'd rather believe Macron than your speculations. I think it's pretty clear EU and allies cover all weapons purchases for Ukraine since Trump took office so nearly 2 years now I don't understand what are you arguing about? It's pretty clear and well documented

    The sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity ​as the communications were not public, said several European countries will be affected, including in the Baltic region and in ​Scandinavia.

    Some of the weapons in question were purchased by European countries under the Foreign Military Sales program, or ⁠FMS, but have not yet been delivered, the sources added. 

    How convenient they stopped weapon deliveries to countries bordering and closest to russia, Trump would never...

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] -5 points 4 months ago

    rather believe Macron than your speculations

    Not mine but a French defence ministry official and the head of Zelensky’s office

    I don’t understand what are you arguing about?

    That money is just money. The war still depends on US weapon systems.

    How convenient they stopped weapon deliveries to countries bordering and closest to russia,

    They need rockets right now in the middle east. I wouldn't judge this as strategic neglect.

    The US have to break down Russia to get China. Unless you see the US handing over the lead to China there is no need to worry about their interest in beating Russia. All the uncertainty is just there to put the Europeans in place.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Has the USA stopped delivering weapons and stopped doing reconnaissance?

    Has the USA ever stopped making their money first and then let it look as if they were delivering weapons and helpful goods?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [+] 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (10 children)
  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago (9 children)

    They stopped paying for it, if we ignore the mineral deal, but they haven't stopped delivering.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 9 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (8 children)

    You're right, they only indefinetely postponed delivering.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (7 children)

    Do you have a source? They need the rockets in the middle east, but have they stopped delivering all weapons?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    Easy way to discard the problem, those kind of things are never announced. European Union and Ukraine aren't concerned about deliveries just for the fun of it.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (5 children)

    Then what's your source that they are concerned about more than the rocket delivery, which is justified?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    If i order a pizza and get a call they can't deliver the pizza because they needed the cheese for the pasta, but also can't give me my money back because when there is enough cheese again they still want to deliver the pizza, you would call that justified?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (3 children)

    It's the only pizza place in town. They know what they are doing. Don't forget to say thank you when they finally deliver, even if the pizza is cold, or they will help you with your manners.

    To be fair, if they deliver pasta and salads directly, which you have also ordered, I think it's bad luck but at least you can start eating.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    or they will help you with your manners.

    Just the regular my way or the highway we get from the usa lol

    if they deliver pasta and salads directly

    The pasta is another for customer, Iran in this case. I ordered a pizza and the pizza place said they could deliver that.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    The pasta is another for customer, Iran in this case. I ordered a pizza and the pizza place said they could deliver that.

    I messed that up. In any case they still brought some food and they will bring the pizza later. You will have lost some pounds but you won't starve and they have kept telling you the weather forecast so you were always dressed right.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    Thanks for translating the us narrative into the metaphor, i get they're the us is the only pizza place in town but it's not getting good reviews. They've abandoned Ukraine and are screwing over their allies. Can't wait for some other guy to start selling pizza's.

  • source
  • parent