Has anyone encountered someone from a country that has had socialist in the past falling for propaganda.
I have a couple friends who know I’m a ML and its difficult to try to discuss communism around them because of how they fall for the anti red propaganda.
I can discuss the issues with them but they often dismiss everything at themselves being an authority on the subject as I do not live in a post socialist society. I ususally write them off as impossible to enter reasonable discussions with and also I focus mostly on the people within my region to agitate. But occasionally they’re a mutual friend or are in the vicinity of the discussion and return to the same old things.
Unnecessary but relevant story:
There was even an incident with a German I met at a party. I talked for a bit about normal stuff and mentioned how hard living was for me in my country because of capitalism and he shut me down not wanting to talk about politics which ofc I respect its a party. But later when I was discussing the feminist progress in socialist countries have accomplished and their impact on our country and culture with a professor I was totally chattin up(she wrote her final thesis on a similar matter), they came over and interrupted the conversation with their own opinions on the matter. Mostly referring to the history in Berlin of which ofc they hadn't personally experienced. Thankfully this didn't ruin the vibe and us socialists got social lmao.
But Its something I have encountered repeatedly and I’m not sure how to approach it. Especially as someone from a imperial country.
社会主義採用してた国の人とプロパガンダ信じるのがありますか？少し友達に僕はMLだを知ってます。プロパガンダひっかかるので、辺で共産主義について話は難しです。
あの人とよく話せますけど、よく僕の意見は無視されますよ。あの人にとって、あの人は共産主義について権威振舞いますよ。あの人とちゃんと話無理と思いますて, 同国人とに焦点変わります。しかし、よくあの人辺がいますて、よく僕の話に遮ります。どうしようかな
話 パーティーでドイツ人が合いました.ちょっと間普段話題話しましたて、僕は「資本主義だから僕の生活は硬いです」みたいなて彼は政治的について話しませんだから切り捨てられた。それいいと思いますけど、その後教授と資本主採用してた国のフェミニズム遂げたについて話しましたとき, まじよ遊んでた,(彼女の論文の課題同様もの書いた）あの人は意見ともう一回来て切り捨てられた！大抵バーリンの歴についてあの人体験しませんようだ。とにかく、バイブかわりませんのでしたて社会主義者は社会主義者でしたね～ｗｗｗ
とにかく、よくこの問題を会います。どうしようかな、特別に僕は インペリアル コール国民です
edit: spelling mistakes 変わり：誤字でした
I am from one of those former socialist countries. I have relatives on both sides of the issue. Some of them are very reactionary (racist, etc.) and extremely brainwashed diehard liberals who will never have their opinion changed no matter what you say to them, and they will use the fact that they experienced the last decade of socialism and the problems that occurred then as a card to tell you that they are an unassailable authority on the matter and no one can argue with them. Others (the older generation who lived through the "golden age") have a much more positive view of the socialist past, especially in light of how bad things got under capitalism and how the promises that capitalism would bring about prosperity for all turned out to be lies. There is also a clear class divide where the ones who managed to become wealthy or at least comfortably upper-middle class after the counter-revolution will be much more anti-socialist. The ones with a lot of wealth usually don't even live in the country anymore, preferring instead to live a luxurious lifestyle in western Europe, far from the ugly consequences of what capitalism has turned their own country into.
When you encounter diaspora from one of the former socialist countries, you should ask yourself what their class position is. Unless they are poor migrant workers, chances are they are from relatively affluent families who have a vested interest in portraying socialism negatively. Because for them personally it was negative. Because even though it gave them education, housing, infrastructure, safety, it prevented them from accumulating wealth and living in luxury at the expense of the exploitation of the people who they consider culturally and intellectually inferior to themselves. This is another thing you will notice in the most extreme anti-socialist diaspora from socialist and former socialist countries: a disdain for their own people, blaming them for the failure of the false promises of capitalist prosperity for all to materialize after the counter-revolution because they are lazy, corrupt, criminal, stupid, etc. Instead they frequently worship the West viewing Western culture as morally superior to their own.
You're totally right I think in my circumstances I'm predominantly encountering privileged class individuals. It does return the question to "how can you convince bourgeois to be a class traitor" to a degree.
The question you need to ask yourself is: is that the best use of your time and energy? Is it not more productive to appeal to people whose material conditions make them naturally more open to your message? People in working class, proletarian conditions who are living precariously and who instinctively understand through lived personal experience the need for socialist policies but just need to have their eyes opened to the possibility of a better world. The key in my opinion is to break the liberal indoctrination that has people locked into believing that, as bad as this is, it is the only way things can be.
As for the (petty-)bourgeois, either they can see which way the wind is blowing and, however opportunistically, jump on the bandwagon, or they can be swept away by the wind of history.
I wrote a guide for my community on how to build a movement and I had a section talking about prioritizing effort into those that would be easiest to convince over those that would resist. It's better to recruit 10 willing comrades than save 1 nazi from their pit of hate.
Thank you a lot for this, you're totally right. That's how I've been handling it and I just started to kinda forget that. The way you described it is really nice I might screenshot it for others.