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this post was submitted on 23 Mar 2026
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Philosophy
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@Laura I don't know if there is really a starting point that's accessible to us. My personal starting point is "life". We can only speculate how it came about but anything that's alive has at least the relation of "umwelt" and "innenwelt" (to use von Uexküll's words), or also it's "closed to effective causation" (in Robert Rosen's words). Both approaches are relational.
It's a long way from bacteria to sentient beings, but the above is fundamental. From here on it gets interesting.
I have a sense that what you’re calling “relations” might not be entirely different from what I’m pointing to — even if the framing is different.
Not necessarily the same concept, but perhaps pointing toward something closely related.
In particular, when you describe life in terms of relational structures, I wonder if those relations could be understood not just as interactions within a system, but as something more like intersections of subjectivity.
And if we take that seriously, it might even open up a different way to think about the origin of life itself.
Instead of starting purely from relational processes, perhaps what we call “life” begins at the point where a more fundamental subjectivity and a relationally-formed subjectivity come into contact.
Not as a fixed claim, but as a possible way to reframe the question.
I’d be really interested to hear how that resonates with your perspective.
If you’re interested, I could share a paper that develops a perspective along these lines.
I’d be very curious to hear your honest thoughts on it.
@Laura I'm not sure if I can follow you there - maybe my view on the emergence of "subjectivity as the result of an inside-outside relation" is too technical (e.g., Nick Lane's theories, see talk below), too much subject to information theory (bio-semiotics) or too much general systems theory, e.g., Rosennean (M,R)-systems.
Feel free to share your paper, though :-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBiIDwBOqQA
Alright, I’ll share the paper with you.
I’d really appreciate hearing your thoughts on it.
I’ll also take a look at the video you shared and the theories you mentioned, and get back to you with my thoughts as well.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/398757987_The_Removal_of_God_from_Knowledge_How_the_Exclusion_of_Absolute_Subjectivity_Shaped_Modern_Science_and_Its_Limits
@Laura Thanks - I'll read your paper and share my thoughts with you.