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Its all the phone and communists fault
(thelemmy.club)
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this post was submitted on 23 Mar 2026
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I'm not moralizing, I am talking about an improvement to material conditions, in real terms. We all know what the word "better" means, why the fuck would we not advocate for improvements to our quality of life? Why would you ever want to yield discussions of that topic to organized religions?
It is exactly so that everyone does not know what "better" and "improvement" means. Someone who is of a more libertarian persuasion because they got lucky with Bitcoin might see talk about improvements and betterment that entails it being impossible to own a private recreational nuke as being inconsistent. Betterment in your case can mean that a small business owner has his property forcibly converted into communally operated MoP. Those that enforce change in their interest might see their concept of humanity warped beyond recognition in a most certainly traumatic process of historical necessity. It's kind of like saying the immune system is a good thing, for the viruses it's not and autoimmune reactions are a huge complication to the lives of organisms with immune systems.
With good and bad any further explication stops. Something is good. Okay. Why is it good? Because it is good. It nearly always plays out circularly like this, except if there is a scientific process of criticism that spawns from this line of questioning. The latter almost never occurs. All of morality, and much of ethics is circular.
Ensuring that everyone has access to food, water, healthcare, education and shelter is objectively good. Do you disagree?
I reject the notion of objective goods as that is a contradiction in adjectives and neither is it in my specific interests that everyone has food, water, healthcare, education and shelter.
Thanks for your honest response. I think your values are sociopathic and destructive, but luckily, I also think you are a rare exception among our species.
Thanks for the chat, I don't see how there's anything productive that can come from discussing this further, so I hope you have a great day and I wish you a lot of love and solidarity. All the best.
I'd like to carefully disagree here. If someone took a friend from me, or abused them terribly without any apology, I would want them to die. I think this is a very empathetic and prosocial reaction which is not at all sociopathic. Think of the time female bonobos brutally killed a member of their cohort for killing a defenseless baby that truly couldn't act in its own interest.
What is sociopathic however is that we salute them troops because they keep the country safe by squashing alleged threats. Only a minority stands to benefit from what we currently consider good, those who make the world work in concrete terms will never meet those beneficiaries. Workers have their lives exhausted and brains forcefed with shit for a section of people that would forever remain abstract to them. A prosocial reaction by workers would spell Armageddon on the current state of the world, and believe me, that is most likely what you are pointing towards but still are too scared to consider the full implications of.
Viewing friends and family as something akin to property and becoming angry and violent when someone violates your perceived property is perfectly in line with sociopathy. Most humans care about others, because they feel empathy, even for people who they have never met and have no connection to, heck, even towards creatures entirely unlike us.
Have you been a victim of abuse or trauma? Did you have an abusive or neglectful childhood?
You are insinuating that I view people as property. Nice attempt at an inversion. That is not the case, I consider anyone a friend that I can be one with. Friends can only be the people that you sync up with, I'm sure you'd agree.
To the untrained reader this is an especially effective rhetoric tactic to attack the person you are talking with. You go show everybody how insane or mentally unstable I am for merely having read those theoreticians of the 19th century and applying the knowledge. Please read what Mr. Marx wrote in the last edition of the Neue Rheinische Zeitung (and all of his other works, along with those of Bakhunin, Kropotkin, Lassalle, Luxemburg and so on. Extra points for reading every little critique people had against any theorist).
I think you misunderstand, I have already written off the original discussion we had, and I was just trying to help you learn about yourself. There is nothing to be ashamed of, I am not trying to discredit you or undermine your arguments in any way, I don't really need to do that, nor do I care to. I think my arguments are extremely persuasive and stand very well on their own terms.
I was genuinely trying to help you. Sociopaths often do not realize that they are sociopathic or that they are thinking of people as being property, they don't generally understand or interrogate the source of their own feelings because emotional intelligence was never properly modelled for them in childhood. That isn't their fault, and it doesn't make them inherently bad people.
Anyways, I am going to step away from this discussion now, and again wish you all the best, much love and solidarity.
Well thank you for your therapy session :) I appreciate it
A little calibration for your future practice, if anything I am a narcissist.
Oh snap, what is this?!?! You psychopath!
@OriginEnergySux@lemmy.world - What do you think, buddy? Do you disagree with this too?
I think it's objectively efficient, but not objectively "good"
Wouldn't you prefer to live in a society without homelessness, for example? You don't think that would be a better society than our current one?
My disagreement was with the wording of "good", that's all.
So you would prefer to live in a society without homelessness, but you wouldn't say that it would be "good" to create a society without homelessness, is that right? Just trying to understand.
Pretty sure someone else said it before, good is subjective. Look i get you wanna debate but there's not enough meat on this bone
I don't think it is subjective, but even if it is, I am asking you, what is your subjective opinion? Because to me, it feels like you are too cowardly to admit your true feelings, and you are hiding behind this semantic argument instead.
Edit: Silently downvoting this comment just proves my point. Thanks for the discussion.