The Fediverse is huge and overwhelming to a newcomer, with many different types and each with servers to pick from. Which ones would you suggest checking out or avoiding?
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I was wondering why we suddenly had so many astroturfers, shills and bots creeping in and fucking up all the conversations. It used to just be dumb but earnest tankies, now we got all kinds up in this bitch.
Huh well I wonder why making your space inhospitable for leftists would attract astroturfers and shills?
Is anyone actually saying those things or are you exaggerating the positions of leftists who wouldn't want Western imperialist powers to be able to topple foreign governments?
Yes, that is me defending Russia's invasion. And as you can see, my argument there isn't that Russia has a right to do it, the argument is that I think NATO is a tool of US hegemony and Russia is doing my work for me by fighting NATO. See how that's different from what you wrote? Is any of what I've said bad faith, or was I exactly right when I said you were exaggerating (or in this case just completely misrepresenting) what leftists say?
It's not about what specific words you used. Read my previous comment again, I didn't even quote the "god given" part.
The issue is you fundamentally misunderstood why some leftists aren't pro-Ukraine. It's really not about what Russia has or doesn't have to right to do. That's misrepresenting our point. Just to spell this out clearly: communists don't even believe that the state should exist, let alone that an individual nation-state has a "right" to do anything. That's just not how communists think. Maybe some non-communist anti-imperialists on lemmy.ml do think that way, but AFAIK most are communists.
This is like if a pro-life person said that pro-choice people deliberately want to murder children; you're imposing a certain framework and a set of assumptions that makes your opponents look bad when that's not what they're saying. If you do this consistently, you can just shutter out debate entirely because you can ascribe incorrect or evil positions to your interlocutors until the cows come home.
If you can find an example of a leftist saying that Russia has a literal right to invade Ukraine, then we can talk about that. But that specific reason is, IMO at least, very flawed. That doesn't mean that there aren't other reasons why someone could arrive at that conclusion.
On the topic of sealioning: I won't deny that I'm sealioning because it's pretty obvious that I am. I'll just invite you and everybody who reads this thread to question whether sealioning is actually a bad thing to do in all situations. If there's a community of people making racist comments and a Black person joins that community and politely responds to every person who says something racist, they are sealioning. If a woman joins a misogynistic group of men and politely corrects them every time they say something misogynistic, she's sealioning. And the worst part is, in either of those situations, the minority definitely would be right to not be civil if they desire, but somehow this whole concept of "sealioning" exists to make you out to be a bad guy whether or not you're polite. Like, seriously, I'd be well within my rights to be impolite to you right now for lying about what leftists believe, but I'm being polite instead and that actually becomes a point against me because it becomes "sealioning."
Okay, cool, ignore my last paragraph completely then. Don't think about how the concept of "sealioning" just serves to reinforce whatever the consensus opinions are even if they might be reactionary. Abolitionists were sealioning. Civil rights activists were sealioning. Suffragettes were sealioning.
Thought terminating cliche.
You know what, I think I might take it back. I'm not sure I was sealioning. I didn't even go as far as to ask you for a source or anything. I simply replied to someone else's comment and you joined the conversation by inventing a position I didn't believe in. I haven't even done the thing from the comic here, you're actually the one that butted into the conversation.
Indeed, why did you say that leftists say it's good for Iran to shoot protesters in the face and that Russia has a god given right to invade Ukraine?
"I don't want to have this discussion!" He screams, continuing to reply
So no, no one was actually saying "Iran mass shooting their citizens protesting in the face is actually good" or "Russia has a god-given right to invade their neighbors"
You were just lying.
So, once again, no, no one was actually saying “Iran mass shooting their citizens protesting in the face is actually good” or “Russia has a god-given right to invade their neighbors”
You were just lying.
Are you talking about the comments where they were making actual arguments and you are just spamming reaction images?
"I'm so obviously right that it's bad faith of you to expect me to actually present evidence!"
Corpo trash can't stand wrongthink
I don't know which ones are bots. I assume nothing is a bot. I don't know about any bots. I don't know if I've ever seen one. Are you a bot? How do I know?
You're going about it wrong, assume everyone is a bot, because it's very, very hard to tell now. You cannot tell if I'm a bot.
The best tell is honestly if someone makes a stupid argument, because there are more bots than people making stupid arguments against objective reality and basic human empathy and community and progressive politics, or making radical and dumb far-left calls for revolution, violence or demanding recognition for some obscure and controversial marginalized group to the exclusion of everyone and everything else.
If you understand what they're trying to do with bot armies and shills working to move culture, you can recognize it a lot easier.
There are also no small number of people who have read these stupid arguments and have unknowingly sided with a bot because it sounds "inclusive" or like proper progressive stances, but haven't used critical thought. I count them as bots also.
This is ridiculous. You really can't assume anyone "making radical and dumb far-left calls for revolution" is a bot. By this rule every communist is a bot. You're dismissing very reasonable responses to the state of the world, in which multiple genocides are taking place and it's been exposed that various heads of states and billionaires are pedophiles and have been conspiring together for years. If anything, I'm sure a lot of reasonable people could just as easily say that anyone who wants to just vote away the problems is a bot. Why is that position inherently better than revolution?
Also, what are the "obscure and controversial marginalized groups"? Trans people? The disabled?
Ah, another victim of the chaos, flailing and directing energy at an entire narrative spun by people deliberately having dedicated time and energy to making you specifically feel outraged at people who are your ally, filling all the blanks with your worst case fantasies and the lovely opportunity to police your own side.
Get off the internet. https://www.progressivevictory.win/ has people you can support and actually get off your ass and help for local representation and leadership. Nobody is coming. Nobody is saving us. There will be no revolution. Rebuild community and drop the rage.
If the unpopular voices of a random person on the internet are too worrisome and problematic for you to focus on what matters, you're no good to any of us. I won't see a reply, I don't have the energy to deal with .ml'ers right now.
if I assumed everyone was a bot, I wouldn't be here talking. it would be a waste of my goddamn time. it would be boring
if I assume that everyone with stupid political views was a bot, then I'd just be an idiot
I'm glad I can use reasoning and deduction to actually figure things out or I would be equally stuck in a black-and-white false dichotomy.
For example, I assumed you're a bot immediately, then I made a small effort and checked for clues, and found the first mod action performed against you on lemmy was a comment removed for asking about microwaving your balls, which tells me you're likely a human. But I also know in relatively short time even those clues will be meaningless as tactics get more and more sophisticated. It's just like always being on guard when you go outside. You can be on guard for danger without always being anxious or paranoid.
See? it's not so hard.