753

That's a whole lotta hydrogen! (lemmy.dbzer0.com)

submitted 2 weeks ago by Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com to c/science_memes@mander.xyz

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[-] MissingInteger@lemmy.zip 13 points 2 weeks ago

Why do you care so much?

They did respond with longer comments later, but you only spammed this (This was @oftenawake@lemmy.dbzer0.com)
You also spammed comments back and forth with Log in | Sign up @davidagain@lemmy.world. Nobody forced you to make those comments.
I'm also not of the opinion that you commented elsewhere in "good faith."

Now what is your answer to the question:

What is Imane Khelif’s gender and sex?

And before you ask again: I have read that you categorize sex determination in humans entirely based on gametes, and that you also binarily categorize the many edge cases/exceptions (you know what one interperation of this meme is about) as "organized around producing a type of gamete". Now please answer the question. I would be interested to read your answer.

[+] powerstruggle@sh.itjust.works -13 points 2 weeks ago

If you can acknowledge that it's not me categorizing anything, but that I'm merely relaying how the field of biology defines sex, then sure. I make no claim other than referring to many sources saying exactly that.

The entire thread that started with "Why do you care so much?" was eminently silly and I didn't bother responding with effort, but that user engaged in other subthreads, where I did respond.

The other user is unhinged, to be honest. Like, something is wrong with them. I engaged in good faith a few times, but in the end they refused to acknowledge a basic fact and it wasn't worth engaging with effort.

[-] MissingInteger@lemmy.zip 13 points 2 weeks ago

Now, where's your answer to the questions I asked in my very first comment?

What is Imane Khelif’s gender and sex?

We are now really deep in the comment chain, but you still haven't answered.

[+] powerstruggle@sh.itjust.works -6 points 2 weeks ago

Khelif identifies as a woman, and was determined to be male by sex testing. Khelif likely has the same condition as Caster Semenya (5αR2D), which often results in being incorrectly assigned female at birth due to ambiguous genitalia.

Khelif is male due to producing sperm, which is why I wanted to clarify how biologists define sex. It isn't based on chromosomes, testosterone, or anything other than gametes (slightly longer put, the gamete type one's body is organized around producing).

If you want to discuss the accuracy of the sex testing done that's fine too, but for the sake of answering your question I didn't go into that.

So gender is female and sex is male.

[-] MissingInteger@lemmy.zip 11 points 2 weeks ago

Where exactly do you get this informations from? I can't find any reputable reporting about 5αR2D in connection with Imane Khelif. The Wikipedia article about her links to quite a few sources and none of these discuss that.
The introduction has this sentence summarizing three sources:

No medical evidence exists to suggest that she is transgender or has XY chromosomes, disorders of sex development, or elevated levels of testosterone.

The 2025 "sex verification testing" of the "World Boxing" would exclude her in many cases as not a woman, where she would be a "biological female" even under your definition (SRY gene, high testostrone etc.), where her body would still be "organized around producing a larger type of gamete".

I'm am positively suprised that we can agree that Imane Khelif is a woman. With my preconceptions, I almost expected you to say that she is a man (sorry about that).

[+] powerstruggle@sh.itjust.works -8 points 2 weeks ago

This goes over the 5αR2D claim:

https://www.snopes.com/news/2024/11/20/imane-khelif-medical-records/

Note that it confuses gender and sex, and says that the reports are unverified, but that should be interpreted as "Nobody is willing to go on the record about leaked medical reports" which is a "no duh" because that's a good way to get sued. Here's a screenshot from the source:

There have been several leaks of medical records, and nobody has been willing to go on record saying "these are fake/edited/whatever". The IOC has directly implied it's a DSD case:

That's in addition to the sex tests that were requested by the IBA, but done by an independent accredited lab:

YMMV, but that along with other circumstantial evidence like Khelif avoiding any competitions that now require sex testing, is enough for me to conclude that the leaks are almost certainly correct. I'll gladly go back and edit my past comments if Khelif ever proves otherwise.

[-] MissingInteger@lemmy.zip 8 points 2 weeks ago

Well in this case my milage does indeed vary:

Some leaked Documents hardly prove anything in my opinion and even in your linked snopes article it says:
[assuming the above leak is true]

Such a person might be considered chromosomally male, but that does not necessarily mean they are accurately or conclusively described as biologically male.

I can't find any concrete reporting about the IBA test in 2023 (here is the relevant section in the Wikipedia article). Only statements by the IBA itself that she has XY chromosomes (which does not,even if true, necessarily mean that she is male, female XY is possible.)

[-] powerstruggle@sh.itjust.works -3 points 6 days ago

Now Imane Khelif is admitting it directly:

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/sports/article/2026/02/05/boxer-imane-khelif-reveals-she-took-hormone-treatment-before-paris-olympics_6750171_9.html

In an interview with a French sports daily, the 26-year-old Algerian, who has been the target of repeated attacks, confirms that she has the SRY gene and took treatment to lower her testosterone levels in order to compete.

This is not the case of female XY, and so Khelif is biologically male.

[-] oftenawake@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 2 weeks ago

"Why do you care so much?" is a reasonable question, given that you are obsessed with this topic and on a mission to correct others with what you believe to be "facts".

It is a reasonable question given that your choice of "facts" aligns well with denying that trans people exist. The existence of trans people is an empirical fact you don't seem to be interested in acknowledging.

You "merely relaying how the field of biology defines sex" is disingenuous because your position on the whole matter is not inquisitive (in search of understanding) but authoritarian (telling others how to be).

That's why you will be called out on it repeatedly, because you are not telling the truth about your motives and try to pass yourself off as neutral and scientific.

So I ask you again: Why do you care so much?

The answer is pretty clear - you don't acknowledge that you yourself are trans, because you haven't developed the self-reflection skills to be honest with yourself about it yet. Instead you cling to biology text books, while telling trans people that they don't exist.

But we know your type very well - dishonest, mean-spirited denialists with no personal integrity.

Your power struggle is with yourself.

[-] a_non_monotonic_function@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago

Your power struggle is with yourself.

Wisdom.

[-] oftenawake@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Power Struggle who wakes up thinking about trans people every day but comes online to tell us* we don't exist!? Laughable were it not so tragically pathetic.

Ffs it's so sad, so lonely over there. I just feel sorry that they repress themself so much that they go around in life carrying out a blanket attack on an entire already marginalized group, which they themselves are unwittingly part of, under the banner of "science"... and that's their contribution to life? Making other people's lives worse in the name of "science"?

It is fucking weak and foolish.

Science is for helping humanity's understanding, not furthering oppression!

"Science"-ism religious fundamentalist bigots can fuck right off with their holy textbooks!

*** I mean I'm only sort of to the male-ish side of an imaginary center, most people don't even notice that I'm nonbinary (just neurodivergent!) and I probably only think about it once a week because it's just not that important a part of my life overall, since I resolved it with myself by growing a fuckin pair, dealing with my issues and practicing some basic kindness to myself and strangers at large. It's not even hard, it just takes a little courage. Dishonest little cowards will continue to hide from themselves while announcing it to the the whole fucking internet! My purpose in engaging at all is to let Power Struggle know that they're naked and in plain sight of others who might just(!!) know what they don't yet know about themselves. But there's no helping stupid, is there?

Edit: formatting.