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[-] Awoo@hexbear.net 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

and the ruling class cannot simply dictate what people think in a way that forever prevents them from seeing what else is possible,

They can and will do so until revolution forces their hand, unless the incentives of transitioning outweigh the incentives of maintaining.

I think you can probably bargain capitalists to transition to socialism and give up their power, in much the same way royals gave up power without giving up their position/wealth. The deal they would be making is essentially to be wealthy capitalists, but to be the last ones. Prey upon them not giving a shit about the next generation and only caring about themselves and their immediate gains. Prey upon the next-quarter mindset of capitalism. This of course completely hinges upon putting a deal on the table that is better than the deal of keeping or maintaining capitalism though, so it has to be very large and the socialist side has to be very very powerful to pull it off.

[-] purpleworm@hexbear.net 6 points 1 month ago

They can and will do so until revolution forces their hand,

This is absolutely false, and there could be no revolution if it was true. They can exert a great deal of influence, but what people think is not merely theirs to dictate. What people think is basically a product of their material conditions, and a capitalist state is responsible for organizing their material conditions, so that's a huge impact, but the capitalist state has two limitations: a) It is not omnipotent, it is not using magic, it is constrained by its own circumstances, resources, and the laws of nature, and b) in order to pursue capitalism, there is a limit to what it can pursue even within what is mechanically possible.

Because of this, the state's ability to dictate ideology is always, at best, imperfect, and it will get weaker and weaker as capitalism decays, causing the options available to the state that maintain the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie to continuously narrow.

I agree that capitalists can be bought off, that's what I was trying to say before, I just think that kind of measure is a detriment to socialist consciousness and organizing because then that means there is relatively little class-consciousness among the Taiwanese people as they are re-integrated, when China could profoundly benefit from having the integrated population be one that is more radical than the PRC's status-quo. It's very unlikely, but I think the best outcome would be a socialist revolution in Taiwan that is able to negotiate independence from the PRC on the basis of constitutionally opposing Western imperialism and its running dogs (the main geopolitical reason that the PRC is understandably stubborn about this issue to begin with).

this post was submitted on 30 Dec 2025
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