this post was submitted on 17 Aug 2023
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chapotraphouse
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Compulsory public school is a topic that could easily turn into a struggle session.
I'll get us started: compulsory public education in a capitalist society is prone to child abuse. It's where imperial propaganda gets ingrained and where people who want power over children have unlimited access to control them.
Being anti-public education is literally a fascist talking point and one that's dangerously popular with US conservatives already. Public education is far from perfect, but removing resources will make every single problem with it worse. Besides, teacher's unions are one of the last viable union careers.
Teachers are cops and being pro teacher is pro cop. Literally if you try to refuse public school as a child, violent enforcement will be threatened and eventually called if you don't confirm.
Public education is one of the basic principles of any socialist program. Public education was one of the very first things the USSR and Cuba did. Uneducated people fall easier to propaganda.
Okay those are socialist societies. Under capitalism capitalist propaganda is taught. I'm for public education, but not forcing it. Tell me how you can justify using violence on a literal child so they can learn how great slaveowners were and how to be a good working peon.
Didn't even realise it was the same user arguing back and forth with themselves lmao
I think they both made great points.
@ the upvote ratio of you vs. you
it took me a second
I'm glad I noticed what was going on before I embarrassed myself by trying to argue.
I think there are valid arguments to make if you wanna get down.
This is an all time bit, had me fully staring at my screen like :foucault-madness:
Yeah, but look at he numbers. They don't educate us here. Most people are functionally illeterate. See? I can't even spell illeterate
Not being glib here, but is that bad? I think the world would be a much worse place if certain children were just allowed to op-out of education in a tantrum.
'School should be optional' is a half step from 'bedtimes are authoritarian'.
The question is what would opting out of education look like? Homeschool is not great, certainly doesn't work for poor people. Same with private school. Does this child just stay at home while their parents work? Do they get no education? Do we let YouTube teach them everything?
I propose we allow children to opt out of traditional education to train an ensemble of starcraft geniuses so we can watch them compete.
ACAB includes teachers.
Hope you're joking because otherwise...
Just a little on the nose for a focault isn't it?
I am not in fact a Foucault, but you can PM me him
please be joking
Police are class traitors who's job is to use violence to perpetuate the system of capital. Teachers in practice are not dissimilar in quality, only quantity
You can’t be serious. If teachers exist to persevere capital, do you seriously think teachers would no longer exist in socialism?
Education would have to exist. There is simply no way it would look anything like our broken unproductive system we have now though. So teachers as we know them, they wouldn't exist.
Isn't that being idealistic though? In socialist society every institution would look completely different. But we are nowhere near building socialism in America and children need to go to school. So some compromise has to be made. And I would 100% rather tax dollars go to teachers and students rather than cops.
Children need to be socialized, educated, and cared for. Objectively our instruction of school don't accomplish this. I am not an expert in the field. However, all the literature I have ever read concludes that you wouldn't expect a system that looks like ours to get any of that done. So I don't actually know what the correct answer would be. You are right it is better for tax dollars to go to schools instead of cops. However looking at municipal budgets, we don't do that either. So the system is a failure in every possible way.
I think one issue is you are looking at schools as a monolith which of course has deep systemic and systematic problems. But schools can vary hugely in the quality of education. I'm not just talking about the difference between rural Alabama vs suburban California, even schools in the same district can vary a lot in quality of education delivered.
Calling the system a failure in every way is extreme to the point of being meaningless. Students do still learn how to read and write, basic maths and science, basic history. Obviously those are biased, especially history, but consider what would happen if there were no public schools even flawed as they might be. Children would literally be taught that the Earth is 3000 years old, Adam and Eve were the first humans, and in Utah that Native Americans were a Jewish tribe that had their skin turned red because of their sin.
There are shitty and abusive teachers out there, but I genuinely believe that most are in it to help children and are handcuffed by the system. And many, many teachers do their best to educate within the limitations of that system.
Cutting cops budgets tomorrow would immediately help people. Cutting school budgets would immediately make things worse for children. I urge you to rethink your position. We shouldn't eliminate hospitals because the healthcare is shit.
So teachers should have guns?