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[–] 137 points 1 year ago (60 children)

Wish we got a more complete understanding of the truckers' side in this article - why is it so hard to turn off your engine instead of idling?

The guy quoted in the article says that some trucks need to operate their lift gates 15 or 20 times in a day. First of all, turn on your engine to operate the gate and then turn it off when you're done... Secondly, if it is impacting business too much to take that extra time to turn the engine on and off, invest in an auxiliary power source to operate the lift gate.

Maybe I'm missing something?

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  • [–] 134 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (28 children)

    Former trucker. If it's hot or cold AF it sucks not having a or heat. If it's a hot day, it's way hotter on blacktop surrounded by hot engines.

    It can be a pain to turn it on and off a bunch of times per day, I know it sounds minor, but when you're trying to keep track of a bunch of things, making sure the right cargo comes off or on in the right order in the right way, hitting multiple docks or stops in quick succession. Trying to claim the space you need and trip plan (a lot of people don't realize how difficult it can be to get a truck through a city, especially East Coast cities).

    Then you get somewhere and hop out of your truck to check in, thinking it will take 30 seconds. Talk to whomever you may need to, clear obstacles and eyeball the space you need to get your trailer into. You'll run into clueless, apathetic and just all around useless fucks at every corner. The sort of people that make glaciers seem on point. 30 seconds can turn into 30 minutes real quick.

    It's a tough gig, and having an army of mercenary profit driven people out there looking to make a buck off the guy delivering literally everything you need to survive that's not air (and sometimes even that too) is kinda bullshit.

    Edit: I'm not endorsing excessive idling, just trying to give some perspective on why a driver may fail to turn it off.

    And also that a policy that pays anyone to report it is suspect at best. Where are we drawing the line on that? Jaywalking? What about immigration? Who's to say I can't start a company that surveils and informs for profit? It's a slippery damn slope with nothing nice at the bottom. Enforcement should be done with paid public servants, full stop.

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  • [–] 109 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    There's a lot of externalizing of costs going on. The trucks are idling because the drivers are operating at the slimmest possible margin under the assumption that idling doesn't cost anything.

    What we actually would want to get to is that idling does have a cost (environmental, health, pleasantness of the area, etc). And that cost ought to be passed up the chain so that the various goods being shipped are more expensive.

    But without a more centrally-managed economy, the implementation is to put all the pressure on the truck drivers and leave them responsible for passing that pressure to the next step up the chain. It doesn't work out very well in practice because the drivers need to make a bunch of capital expenses for something like adding a cab AC and adding a batter-powered lift, but they've been operating at low margins so they're not in a position to do it.

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  • [–] 77 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Local deliveries should be happening in electric vehicles. And 90% of long range trucks should have been a train. Go back in time a few decades and get the godless MBA having fucks out of the railroad industry.

    Boom! Y'all should elect me king of everything, just solving problems left and right!

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  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Local deliveries should be happening in electric vehicles.

    Including cargo bikes, not only electric box trucks.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Cargo bikes kinda suck for very heavy loads and terrain, theres a reason they used to be ubiquitous throughout China, but now everyone uses gas and electric.

    *manual cargo bikes, you see a decent amount of 3+ wheeled electric or gas bike things carrying bikes, trash, veggies, w/e

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    You'll have my vote for king as soon as you provide the time machine to enact your plan

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    My understanding is that turning off and on a diesel engine is not great for it or something like that. Sorry, my grandpa was a mechanic and I'm half remembering something he said.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago

    an army of mercenary profit driven people out there looking to make a buck off the guy

    that's one interpretation. another could be "a group of people who care enough about the air quality of their neighborhood that they finally stand up for themselves".

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    To add to this as a Diesel mechanic,

    Diesel engines are designed to operate continuously for the most part, the most wear and tear on the engines happen during start up and shut down.

    They take large batteries and more effort to start so repeatedly doing that over and over in short intervals will lead to flat batteries and burnt out starter motors

    Diesel engines run most efficiently I.e less pollution and better fuel economy when warm, cold engines cause more soot etc.

    The engines wear poorly and develope carbon deposits from stop start operations too increasing fuel consumption and NOX emissions.

    Lastly but certainly not the end of it is most Diesel trucks have what's known as a turbo timer, this keeps the engine running 2 minutes or more depending on settings after the ignition is turned off.

    This allows oil flow around the turbo and prevents unnecessary heat damage to components.

    Certainly if i applied some thought to this i could come up with more reasons and others could argue against but that's what I've got to say on the matter

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    I will only counter with one point. The smell of DEF in every city everywhere every morning, noon, and night. 🤮

    We need something better than diesel.

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  • [–] 34 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    My grandpa drove a semi truck;

    The A/C was part of it, some truck stops even had a thing called “IdleAir” that was like a window unit so you didn’t have to leave your engine running. For semis nobody wants to sleep in a sunbaked box with no air.

    But according to him, for the really big engines, turning it off and on causes more wear and tear than leaving it running. So back in the day when diesel was still very cheap compared to gas they all got in the habit of leaving it on all the time.

    Even the cops leave their cars on all the time where I am from.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    If you're loading and unloading 20 times a day, you're doing local delivery and should probably be in an electric truck in the first place.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Sorry, but those don't exist in any appreciable amount in the US, unfortunately.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    I've often wondered why trucks can't have a stop+start system integrated like many cars have these days. Wouldn't need to be a conscious action to kill the engine, just something that happens automatically when they park up.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (13 children)

    That is wear and tear on your engine, and the meager benefits you get from that are far offset by the maintenance costs.

    For example, my not so fuel friendly car has, over the course of 3 years, shut itself off at stop lights for over an hour and a half.

    Through doing this an entire gallon of fuel has been saved.

    Over 3 years.

    It's engine down time is usually less than 10 seconds.

    I get that it feels like this is a benefit if you have all of the cars everywhere doing it, but this ain't it. Even environmentally, the extra batteries we need to produce will be more harmful than the miniscule exhaust will be.

    Service trucks will put many, many more miles on them in that 3 years than I will. Their idle time might be a great deal more if they're leaving it to idle while they go try to make a delivery. But, two things: those systems are ridiculously easy to turn off, by design, and diesel engines really don't like working that way. The wear and tear would be worse, more expensive, and more harmful.

    I'm not saying throw your hands up and give up. I an saying that the service vehicles are the ones we actually should be making exceptions for. Even in a consumer car free society, we'll still need the service vehicles to do work.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    If every car in the US had auto stop and drove similar to yours, it would have stopped 190,000,000 pounds of CO2 from going into the atmosphere in those 3 years.

    Even environmentally, the extra batteries we need to produce will be more harmful than the miniscule exhaust will be.

    Extra batteries aren't required for Auto-stop. If battery wear was significantly faster due to the feature it wouldnt matter, batteries are much more recyclable than burnt gas.

    I had auto-stop on my last car, and the battery made it 9 years before I finally had to replace it, and when the feature wasn't working (too cold out) it made a noticeable impact on my fuel economy, around 3-5 mpg.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Yeah I'm not thinking so much stopping at lights and in traffic for this application, but something like if the parking brake is engaged and 15-30 seconds pass, then engine turns off. As the trucker in this thread noted, sometimes they'll hop out expecting a quick stop and it balloons into 15 minutes of idle waiting on other people. Then there's the drivers who will let the truck idle while getting loaded/unloaded just for climate controls.... And thinking at scale saving even just a gallon, multiplied across a whole fleet, could be a big impact.

    Of course there's more thought to put in for secondary systems, but just strikes me as something that should be considered.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Some newer diesel engines have features where they can reduce down to only running a single cylinder when parked/idling to keep the electrics running as expected to greatly reduce fuel consumption and emissions while idling which might help as that trickles into fleets

    But yeah in reality these service trucks should be smaller electric vehicles for local delivery, or even better they should be electric trains pulling power directly from the grid. Heck I'll even take diesel electric trucks with a pantograph to use power from an overhead wire instead of burning Diesel while in cities. Imagine if our roads had big networks of overhead wire to power trucks and buses from! Imagine if every hill on a highway had a section of overhead wire for trucks to power themselves off of while climbing. Realistically every transit mix will require some amount of trucks and buses so we might as well minimize their impact while we imagine a better world

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