this post was submitted on 25 May 2025
1055 points (94.8% liked)
Comic Strips
16735 readers
2006 users here now
Comic Strips is a community for those who love comic stories.
The rules are simple:
- The post can be a single image, an image gallery, or a link to a specific comic hosted on another site (the author's website, for instance).
- The comic must be a complete story.
- If it is an external link, it must be to a specific story, not to the root of the site.
- You may post comics from others or your own.
- If you are posting a comic of your own, a maximum of one per week is allowed (I know, your comics are great, but this rule helps avoid spam).
- The comic can be in any language, but if it's not in English, OP must include an English translation in the post's 'body' field (note: you don't need to select a specific language when posting a comic).
- Politeness.
- Adult content is not allowed. This community aims to be fun for people of all ages.
Web of links
- [email protected]: "I use Arch btw"
- [email protected]: memes (you don't say!)
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Frieren reminds me of my readings about the 19th century Texas Rangers (see Cult of Glory (2020) by Doug J. Swanson) and how Native Americans were literally seen as vermin to be exterminated, even if they assisted in exterminating other indigenous. In real life, a lack of communication and 15th century epidemics divided indigenous peoples who could have otherwise defended their sovereignty; once indigenous children learned the conquering host people's language (English) and affirmative action applied to close egregious wealth gaps, indigenous people have proved to be ordinary people with another skin color (evidence: me, a member of the Navajo Nation). Frieren, in contrast, portrays a demon child as being irredeemably evil even though they learn the host language and are given second chances and extra attention (by the Himmel); the author implies there is some cognitive divide due to demons being solitary creatures who raise and teach themselves from a very early age (presumably much earlier than the failed experiment Himmel performed); however, that subtlety isn't emphasized and demons are more akin to starfish aliens than people.
Overall, I think provoking controversy and discussion around this point is valuable because it invites people to debate the nature of Otherness. In which ways can a person be different enough before they stop being people? What exactly are the differences between “person” and “beast”? Is focusing on those differences the root cause of genocide? Do we hesitate to relax the requirements to be considered a person because we dislike the economic consequences? (e.g. the horror of teaching factory farmed animals to speak)
I personally consider demons in Frieren analogous to indigenous before colonizing powers, albeit sustained by their long life spans and tendency to independently discover powerful technology (magic). I doubt the author is thinking very hard along these lines, and so fear they will fall back on tried and true story patterns in which animalistic heathens are purged to make way for civilization. But I hope to be surprised.
I do think there are valuable conversations to be had about the concept of a creature that is considered ontologically evil and wholly irredeemable.
But I also think reducing that conversation to "Frieren bad" sucks.
We've seen the point of view of demons. They're not human, or human analogues, in any way, shape, or form.
They just look and act like humans, as a form of predatory camouflage.
They're a perfect example of blue and orange morality (warning, TV Tropes link, abandon all hope ye who enters here).
We've seen (in the manga) a demon spend centuries doing his best to learn how to experience empathy, sympathy, or guilt, so he and other demons can become something that can coexist with humans without one or both of them inevitably ending up extinct.
He failed.
There's no possible long term future in Frieren's world where both humans and demons exist, unless demons change so fundamentally that they stop being demons (which would be a paradox of sorts, as real demons would then be extinct).
Demons have one choice: remain true to their nature and eat or exterminate all humans, or cease to be.
Humans have one choice: let themselves be exterminated, or exterminate all demons.
No side is committing genocide, they're just fighting for their own survival, in a world that gives them no other option.
Thank you, that's a very nice writeup. I agree with you that the author probably isn't thinking as hard as, for example Tolkien did with his orcs. However, I wouldn't compare the demons in Frieren to indigenous people in america. It's clear that many demons are really violent, however, even if a lot, or even a majority, of demons are evil, we can't condem their entire race.