this post was submitted on 16 May 2025
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They were only “anti-EV” years ago when there was no infrastructure and batteries weren’t as capable. Plus they made it a point to say it was better for the environment if all gas cars were hybrids as it would use less resources and be more beneficial, and they aren’t/weren’t wrong. Today Toyota has a range of BEVs and is launching more as I type this.
Toyota has one BEV that was released at an unattractive price, with an unremarkable range, and with fairly unattractive styling. There's others upcoming, but it's just the one at the moment.
Toyota LITERALLY launched new EVs yesterday. On top of that what the fuck do you think the prime models are? They’re battery vehicles with less waste because they have generators onboard for longer range. Most people can accomplish their daily driving in EV mode effectively making them EVs. Which is better for the environment currently. Less gas usage when you’re around town, and an efficient motor that allows you to use less battery resources which require dirty AF mining.
Gas/Electric Hybrids. Not EVs.
Wait, you're calling battery mining "dirty AF", when the battery materials are mined exactly one time, while gasoline requires extraction again, and again, and again for the entire life of the car? I think you've got your priorities mixed up.
Uh, no. Toyota continues to lobby against tightening emissions and adoption of EVs. They're trying to leverage their position with hybrids because they missed the EV train.
And they are still largely focused on Hydrogen for whatever reason. Which is effectively an EV anyway, but almost as complicated as a Hybrid.
It's almost as simple as removing the Hydrogen stuff and dropping in a battery instead.
Their excuses about EV charging infrastructure is absolutely ludicrous once you remember how focused they are on Hydrogen.
They were one of the first companies to invest into solid state batteries. They don’t want lithium/ non-solid state batteries as those batteries are less safe and have more long term reliability issues. Both of which are core principles of Toyota. They also make some of the longest lasting cars on the road which is better for the environment than you buying a new car every few years (which is obviously not as good as public transit options). Just because other brands have the illusion of caring about the environment doesn’t mean you should try and shit on the one that has a track record of actually lowering their emissions.
Ding ding ding, this is correct
Toyota has 1 EV and it's fucking dogshit. I'm pretty sure the only reason they made it was to say "see there's no demand for an EV, lets stick with our hybrids." The refresh is better, but it's still one of the worst EVs for sale right now (in the US at least).
Primes are better options for 100% of Americans than a BEV. Less use of batteries and a motor when you need it with 60+ miles of range. Toyota has like 3 Prime vehicles and they just launched a new EV C-HR yesterday and updated Bz today with a new set of trims for various different people.
https://paultan.org/2025/05/15/2026-toyota-c-hr-returns-to-the-us/
I agree that a prime is better for many Americans, but the weirdos that live in cities still technically exist and some of those don't have family hundreds of miles away with no charging infrastructure inbetween.
Why do I need to haul around hundreds of lbs/kg of engine, fuel tank, and all the other garbage of an ICE drivetrain when I don't need it? Oh, for the maybe one time in my life when I'll need to drive farther than 300 miles between charging stations? If that ever happens, I'll just rent an ICE car for the day.
Also, a Prius Prime only has about 40 miles of all EV range. Why are you sending me to the gas station to get more range from petroleum extracted from the Earth, dragged hundreds of miles between refining and delivery when I can just plug my car in at home and charge from my solar array instead?
'it is better if all cars are hybrids' says the company who has the largest hybrid lineup. Even their current EV offering is paltry and is only there for people to point at and say 'look, they have an EV, they can't be anti-EV!'
They leaned way too hard, way too long, on the success of the prius and then spun it like a positive thing. Successfully, apparently.
Yes. Most Americans drive less than 40 miles a day. Giving them the ability to do all of that on electric only, and then gas when they have to go further but with better efficiency is statistically better for the environment. Look, mining, shipping heavy ass battery cars, assembling, and them catching on fire and polluting toxic gas is a real thing. In our current obsession with driving everywhere and not investing in public transportation it’s the better of the two alternatives. If batteries had no mining, no net negative shipping weight, and didn’t pollute toxic gas if they caught on fire for a long time wasn’t a thing then yes you would be correct that BEVs are better. You know what’s even better though, real public transportation. You’re letting the small picture get in the way of the real fight you should be focused on. Not to mention the ballooning size and weight of cars.
But the prius is not built the way you are explaining - up until recently, there was no prius plug-in. What you are arguing for is exactly like that Chevy Volt. Daily EV use, long-distance capability. The standard prius can do something like 1.5mi of range at light throttle application (like 'you're going to get shot at' acceleration speeds), from a full battery.
I could make the same types of arguments with engines, and the fact that tiny explosions happen a foot away from the passenger compartment, every second, for the life of the vehicle, regardless of factors like how economical it is to drive that vehicle, or how scarce fuel becomes. Whereas batteries can be recycled and refurbished, making the argument of creating new batteries less of a viable argument day by day.
Public transport is important, but unless the average consumer can also drop a few mill on helping build that infrastructure faster, it's out of our control. Vote for it, but that's about all you can do.
I'm not 'not seeing the big picture', I'm telling you that a company has lied to you about its intentions and what is best for the potential customers.
I used to own a first gen, first year, Nissan Leaf. Thing was damn amazing - large cargo capacity, enjoyable driving experience, charging the battery cost me just ~$1.25 to go around 75 miles. It was the pioneer of affordable mass-market EVs, and I expected Toyota of all competitors to jump in the most aggressively and not let Nissan steal the slow. A decade later, they have just one true EV model in their lineup for NA. They spent damn near 30 years sitting on the idea, and didn't bite. Using the popularity of the prius to push back their R&D, and aiding that with legal bullshit and disinformation. They have only now shifted strategies since they realized that it's no longer viable.
I can be both pissed off at a bad company, and also hopeful for the future. It's not one or the other.
The Prius Prime came out in 2012. Only 2 years after the first volt. 100% of the people in these threads are not car people and don’t actually know what products have existed or currently exist out there.
Also, Nissan might have had the first leaf, but what has it done with its EV program since then? They have the Arya and the leaf… and look at the state of Nissan now. Toyota made correct calls on Hybrid tech being better, and it’s paying off financially now too.
https://www.motoringresearch.com/car-news/lowest-co2-emissions-car-companies/
The prime launched with just checks notes 11 miles of EV range. The volt had something like 40 miles. The volt doesn't have a ton of range but it at least fits your explanation of what is best; but the prime, lmao. Are you going to commute to work and run errands, then make it back home, all within 10 miles? Cmon now.
Nissan as a whole is in a bad way right now, no doubt, but that doesn't change the fact that they were the only company that even remotely gave a fuck about realistic affordability and availability a decade+ ago; that's why everyone else sat on the sidelines. Wait for someone else to trip and stumble, and then learn. Problem is, the leaf was good, so when everyone else was waiting, people who wanted an EV with realistic expectations, bought one. Suddenly there wasn't a large market incentive to compete, they'd all be playing catch-up, so everyone just kept waiting. Eventually stuff like that soul EV came out, and you had outliers like the smart, but both of those had worse range, less cargo space, etc. Only with the announced launch of the model 3 did anyone else wake from their slumber and finally start to do something - 'hey bro, can we share notes, I didn't study'. And it would take Toyota another what, 7 years from that announcement, to bring their offer to market? And it's... not great, on specs or price. The og leaf could easily get 5mi/kW, but Toyota's can only hit half that with effort - needing more batteries. At a higher price. Oof.
I fail to see how emissions show that Toyota is making the right decision here - sounds like more "hybrids are better, and totally not because we offer lots of them" paired with "lots of people bought our hybrids, so we are proportionally lower - yay, marketing works!" clouding things.