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"progressive" is a relative term.
True. However the default implication is progressive from the thing that came just before it, not something that came 300 years before it. This dude is obviously more progressive than like Pope Pius the Third or something but it's outright regressive in comparison to Francis. Also, he's accused of protecting pedophiles on a number of occasions. I feel like that is kind of like a neutron bomb when it comes to any claim that they're progressive or a good person.
Eh, idk. Francis was caught multiple times in closed-door meetings using the f-slur. However relatively progressive you may present yourself to the world, I just don't think you become head of one of the largest, oldest religious organizations in the world by being truly progressive.
An institution like the catholic church doesn't change overnight. It couldn't or it would lose its legitimacy and therefore its followers. Many US catholics have already started to push back. Some things take time. Frankly the pope being at least "comfortable" with gays probably did more to help change some minds than any amount of protesting has.
That said - protecting pedos was and is horrific. it's not "progressive" one way or the other to condemn that.
Your comment is confusing the hell out of me.
My whole point is that this dude isn't progressive but, if anything, regressive. You then talk about how progress is needed for the church but then how the progress from Francis was too much?
Also doesn't address, remotely, the point that calling this Pope progressive is either a lie or a delusion, depending on how much you believe it.
Your whole point is wrong. That's why you're confused.
Compared to the "conservative wing" of the Catholic church he's quite progressive. That's why I said "it's relative". But that doesn't mean he's going to be smoking a joint at a pride parade while distributing condoms.
You're very "black and white" with your reasoning. You will find it hard to understand with that attitude. For some conservatives in the Catholic church it was definitely "too much". But for others it was not. And there will be some in the middle who will be potentially swayed. For yet others it will be a welcome recognition of their point of view. What did you expect?
People are more easily convinced of a point of view by people they know and trust. If you're a middle-of-the-road Catholic who now sees The Pope blessing homosexuals then maybe you start to accept the idea. "Guess it's not so bad if the Pope even does it." To the Fox News I-went-to-Sunday-school-once-as-a-kid-and-now-I'm-Catholic crowd that will be a bridge too far.
The pope leads the church - but no man rules alone.
Bro, we literally just had this conversation.
Progressive implies in comparison to what came before. This dude is not progressive in what comes from before. It is regressive behavior. The church took 3 steps forward and 2 back. This is called regression.
No, I'm being forward and backward with my reasoning.
I'm not continuing this conversation. We're going in circles. I am not going to call a dude who protected pedophiles 'progressive', full stop. Nor will I really respect anyone who does.
You're using your definition of "progressive" and applying it to the way other people are using the same word though. That's not how communication works. It's like you're trying to misunderstand.
But Relative to what, he's not progressive relative to his predecessor.
Relative to the conservative wing of Catholicism. They make being anti-gay and anti-abortion look pedestrian in comparison.
The guys who would go back to pre-Vatican II Catholic Church are some weird fucks. They want the return to the mass in Latin and probably want to conduct inquisition-style torture on anybody not comforming to their weirdo dogma.
Speaking as an ex-Catholic, can’t agree more
I don’t really feel very good about judging people subjectively based on their beliefs or culture. Like I get it, but I hate giving people excuses for being objectively garbage and bad for society.
And like it’s the pope and he’s at best a pedophile enabler so fuck him.