UK Politics
General Discussion for politics in the UK.
Please don't post to both [email protected] and [email protected] .
Pick the most appropriate, and put it there.
Posts should be related to UK-centric politics, and should be either a link to a reputable news source for news, or a text post on this community.
Opinion pieces are also allowed, provided they are not misleading/misrepresented/drivel, and have proper sources.
If you think "reputable news source" needs some definition, by all means start a meta thread. (These things should be publicly discussed)
Posts should be manually submitted, not by bot. Link titles should not be editorialised.
Disappointing comments will generally be left to fester in ratio, outright horrible comments will be removed.
Message the mods if you feel something really should be removed, or if a user seems to have a pattern of awful comments.
[email protected] appears to have vanished! We can still see cached content from this link, but goodbye I guess! :'(
view the rest of the comments
“Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good”
Labour and the Tories are not the same. The purpose of the narrative that they are is to foster and maintain voter apathy.
No, they're not. But that doesn't make them good. Less bad, perhaps, but good is a stretch.
Voters are apathetic because they rarely (if ever) get to vote for something, usually it's voting to stop something/somebody else.
I agree that voting these days seems to be about “holding one’s nose” and picking the party most likely to stop something.
I blame FPTP.
At the moment, if you’re right-leaning there’s essentially just one party of note but if you’re left-leaning you’ve got some choices.
With PR, I believe more people would be able to just vote for what they want to see.
@C4d Only if people fail to see that there are multiple narratives, which include telling Labour I require they change under threat of no vote. They like others know not of my intention, the cost to them is clear, a lost vote, which is what they require. They earn my vote, they work for it. Hopefully ppl who are dissatisfied will see that another way exists and instead demand better, not to succumb to their own apathetic thought processes.
I think this argument (and your voting “power”, or at least your ability to directly influence the direction of a political party) would work better in a PR rather than FPTP system.
At the moment, losing your vote may or may not cost anyone anything if you’re among a demographic that consistently votes one way or the other.
If you had time on your hands, you could join the local representation of the party of your choice and begin to influence it that way. Unfortunately, not all demographic groups have the luxury of free time.
@C4d Like I've said elsewhere, it's a threat of a lost vote, that doesn't mean I won't vote tactically at GE. They can gamble that I and others will hold to our threat in their strategy if they wish. Just as they can if they assume that all polls assume a majority acceptance of policies, which is short-sighted IMO.
They've been told they're not good enough and have a threat of a lost vote because of it.
Agreed, PR is better, Starmer has U-turned on that as well though.
How have you told Labour? Are you organised? Apologies if you’ve already answered this elsewhere in the thread and I’ve missed it.
Under FPTP, the vote on the right (Tory Party) has an advantage because the vote on the left is more split (Labour, Lib Dem, Green). I appreciate that independents and other parties exist (eg this thing called Reform on the right) or are being considered (have posted separately).
In my area it’s a two horse race. I’m sure that’s the case in many areas.
Depending on the voting patterns and margin in your area, FPTP may allow them to call your bluff. If over the course of the next year your area begins to poll as marginal, you may find you have more clout.
It’s so unfair. But it’s how it works right now. PR can’t come soon enough. I’m saddened that it seems a long way off at this time.
I’ll be voting though. It’s not put me off.
@C4d
It's a very recent development over this weekend and so far I'm contacting opposition parties, my union and seeking out activists as well.
I've emailed regional Labour party and also included my local LibDems, Greens parties, as well as Labour, Green and LibDem metro councillors.
I agree and recognise how FPTP doesn't work fairly and yes they can call my bluff. I'm uncertain as to whether they can effectively predict how accurate voting intention polls are. Labour keep shifting right.
@C4d I'll also be voting and I'll flog the hobby-horse again for the benefit of others, because I'm tiring of people failing to see that the threat to not vote Labour and the intention to vote tactically are separate. A bluff as you accurately put it.
I think I get your point but the subtlety of voting for a party because you fully agree with them vs voting for a party to oust someone else is lost on others if the outcome is the same.
In terms of your other points, doing something is better than doing nothing. If you’re really passionate about this and what to see change in eg the Labour Party it’s going to take more than just you; it’ll need organisation and grass roots activity.
I know a few people who’ve had a moment of disappointment or dissatisfaction that’s driven them into politics at grass roots and beyond. They cover a good chunk of the centre left to centre right and fortunately we’re all grown up enough to still be friends even as we disagree with each other.
It’s a lot of work.
Good luck!
@C4d Oh absolutely and I'm not alone.
FPTP doesn't allow for nuance, and I agree the subtlety of which you speak is lost, but that's not the entire point, the points aren't just the vote, it's Labour's knowledge of opinions of the party that also matters, whether mine or a grassroots collective.
Labour do not have to know my intention, only my statement. They can either calculate I'm serious or bluffing. If nothing else the exchanges here will encourage introspection in others. That's of worth.