this post was submitted on 31 Mar 2025
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    They'll cast you back to the Windows realm with all their toxic might (discuss.tchncs.de)
    submitted 4 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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    [–] [email protected] 0 points 3 days ago (1 children)

    The CLI is very much an enthusiast/professional tool. It isn‘t and it shouldn’t be the default in this day and age. Saying everyone should know how to use the CLI is like saying everyone should know how to use a DSLR camera instead of just relying on their phone’s or everyone should know how to drive a manual transmission car. Those are all great skills to have but most people just want a snapshot or a car that gets them from A to B safely. They don’t want to think about it. And most people just want a computer that gets out of their way. And why shouldn’t they have it?

    And I’m not saying the terminal shouldn’t exist and that people shouldn’t be encouraged to learn about how it functions. But there should always be the option to completely avoid it. Because of you want mainstream adoption, you need to face the sad reality, that the Mainstream doesn’t want to look under the hood. And if you don’t want mainstream adoption, why?

    [–] [email protected] 1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

    I do want mainstream adoption ... of the terminal. The terminal is not just a professional tool. In fact, whenever anything goes wrong with your computer silently, I can almost guarantee there's some helpful output that you'd see had you been invoking that program from the terminal. So what ends up happening? You go to a "professional" who looks at that output, search engines the output, and uses the online documentation to attempt a fix.

    The analogy to the car is somewhat apt. I'd argue we'd all be better off if we knew how to at least do some basic mechanic work. This is the same thing. I'm not saying we all need to live in the terminal..I'm saying we all should know the very basics around it. Update our system, read and search error problems should they arise, and know when and where to reach out to others for help when we can't solve it. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest everybody learn a tool, especially when, again, that tool becomes ubiquitous amongst anyone who does any troubleshooting with computers on a regular basis (i.e. everyone who ever encountered an error ever).

    I don't care about mainstream Linux adoption. I care about mainstream curiosity into how things we use everyday work and attaining a basic knowledge of it.

    Many attempts have been made at graphical package updaters, and honestly they always end up just outputting an error message when something goes wrong. The reason it frustrates new users so much is that they aren't used to having to troubleshoot their own systems. If they don't wish to do so, that's fine, but then they should pay for support since that requires other people’s time, efforts, and skills to do so.

    Arguing that everything should just work on Linux, a free OS, without having to troubleshoot things on your own (which, again, 99% of the time, involves the terminal regardless of what OS you're using), is simply a case of wanting to have your cake and eat it too. If you want to run Linux, and you refuse to pay for it, then complain that it should be more "user friendly", which is just another way of saying "I want tech support but don't want to pay for it", then it shows you probably shouldn't be using that OS, and maybe you don't understand even the basics of how a computer works?

    If you're just not willing to do even the bare minimum to open up a terminal, attempt to run the program, read the output, and then research said output, then you should be on a platform that will provide the support you need should anything go wrong. In other words, you should be on Windows or MacOS.

    If you all want the year of the Linux Desktop, and you all seem to be proclaiming it can't happen until it can operate without the use of the terminal, then you should pay a group of developers to develop it and provide support for it. Until then, you are the maintainer of your own computer, and you should probably just do the work and open the terminal up and do the bare minimum, or shutup and go back to Windows/MacOS.

    Edit: wording/grammar.

    [–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago

    The terminal will never reach mainstream adoption because it already had in the 80s and 90s and people progressed away from CLI and towards GUI. It’s archaic. It’s a fallback. It’s useful, sure. I use it regularly. But not because I‘d not just prefer having a graphical front end. It’s only more useful because the respective front end is lacking.

    Also, the „shut up and go use Windows/macOS“ attitude seems very elitist to me. You‘d rather have the non techies suffer high prices, privacy violations, etc., have them suffer microsoft/Apple instead of making the system more inviting for them? And you‘d rather have another company (like valve is doing right now btw) swoop in and offer what you refuse to entertain because you want everyone to do things the way you like to do things.