this post was submitted on 02 Jan 2025
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menby
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A space for masculine folks to talk about living under patriarchy.
Detoxing masculinity since 1990!
You don’t get points for feminism, feminism is expected.
Guidelines:
- Questions over blame
- Humility over pride
- Wisdom over dogma
- Actions over image
Rules (expansions on the guidelines):
- Mistakes should be learning experiences when possible.
- Do not attack comrades displaying vulnerability for what they acknowledge are mistakes.
- If you see good-faith behavior that's toxic, do your best to explain why it's toxic.
- If you don't have the energy to engage, report and move on.
- This includes past mistakes. If you've overcome extreme reactionary behavior, we'd love to know how.
- A widened range of acceptable discussion means a greater need for sensitivity and patience for your comrades.
- Examples:
- "This is reactionary. Here's why."
- "I know that {reality}, but I feel like {toxicity}"
- "I don't understand why this is reactionary, but it feels like it {spoilered details}"
- You are not entitled to the emotional labor of others.
- Constantly info-dumping and letting us sort through your psyche is not healthy for any of us.
- If you feel a criticism of you is unfair, do not lash out.
- If you can't engage self-critically, delete your post.
- If you don't know how to phrase why it's unfair, say so.
- No singular masculine ideal.
- This includes promoting gender-neutral traits like "courage" or "integrity" as "manly".
- Suggestions for an individual to replace a toxic ideal is fine.
- Don't reinforce the idea the fulfillment requires masculinity.
- This also includes tendency struggle-sessions.
- No lifestyle content.
- Post the picture of your new grill in !food (feminine people like grills too smh my head).
- Post the picture of the fish you caught in !sports (feminine people like fish too smdh my damn head).
- At best, stuff like this is off-topic. At worst, it's reinforcing genders norms..
- If you're not trying to be seen as masculine for your lifestyle content, it's irrelevant to this comm. If you are trying to be seen as masculine, let's have a discussion about why these things are seen as masculine.
Resources:
*The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love by Bell Hooks
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I love the word choice of integrity for chapter 10 since I think it lends a more masculine appeal compared to other descriptions of this concepts. This would be called living authentically if we were talking about queer people coming out or living wholeheartedly if we were Brene Brown. But the concept is the same about being and living in a way that is honest about who we are and living out values. I love the definition she gives:
The talk about splitting and compartmentalization is something that I struggle with but mostly relate to sharing hobbies and interests across different groups of people which is not as dramatic of her great example in the book:
I know that with a lot of my peers and the younger generation this split between work values and live values is falling with more people insisting that their job align with their own values which is a great step in the correct direction. You can see still see that there is a big cash incentive to selling out your values which makes it difficult for everyone to make that choice. Same thing with the general generational shift about working yourself to death. Its harder and harder to get people to center work as their only identity which is a great shift and should be encouraged as a way.
With all of these good changes I feel more hopeful with the exception of the need for self growth. I think bell hooks does a good job about talking about this which is something I have struggled with. An emphasis on men doing the work will cure much of societies problems especially loneness. She lays out the problem so clear:
This coupled with the need to be in control at all time is a hard change to make. I know that when I started opening up and feeling more I felt awful because I ignored myself for so long. Its hard to open up when the first thing you feel is bad but that is telling you need to change something. Once those changes happen the good feelings come up which makes it worth it but need to struggle first. I think many men don't get past the first stage which is hard without support.