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submitted 5 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

Hello comrades, it's time for a new discussion thread for The Will to Change, covering Chapters 8 (Popular Culture: Media Masculinity) and 9 (Healing Male Spirit). Thanks to everyone who participated the last few weeks, I’m looking forward to hearing everyone’s thoughts again. And if you’re just joining the book club this week, welcome!

Putting the thread up early since I won't be able to do so tomorrow. This'll stay up a little longer than usual as well so everyone has the opportunity to share their thoughts during/after the busy holidays.

Chapter 8 briefly surveys popular media depictions of masculinity and how media either reinforces patriarchal roles in its male heroes, or forces them to reject those roles in favor of a healthier sense of self. Chapter 9 discusses healthy vs unhealthy conceptions of intimacy and how men are incapable of true intimacy until they allow themselves to be vulnerable and reject the dominator model of relationships.

If you haven't read the book yet but would like to, its available free on the Internet Archive in text form, as well as an audiobook on Youtube with content warnings at the start of each chapter, courtesy of the Anarchist Audio Library, and as an audiobook on our very own TankieTube! (note: the YT version is missing the Preface but the Tankietube version has it)

As always let me know if you'd like to be added to the ping list!

Our FINAL discussion thread will be on Chapters 10 (Reclaiming Male Integrity), 11 (Loving Men), and the book as a whole, beginning around New Years Day

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[-] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

Chpt. 8

The Incredible Hulk...is a man always on the run, unable to develop lasting ties or intimacy. A Scientist by training, the ultimate personification of the rational man, when he experiences anger he turns into a creature of color and commits violent acts. After committing violence he changes back to his normal white male rational self, he has no memory of his actions, and therefore cannot assume responsibility for them. Unable to form sustained emotional bonds with friends and family he cannot love. He thrives on disconnection and disassociation...he is the symbol of the ultimate patriarchal man, alone on the road, forever drifting, driven by the Beast within.

Chpt. 9

Women are fearful of hearing men voice feelings. I did not want to hear the pain of my male partner, because hearing it required that I surrender my investment in the patriarchal ideal of the male as protector of the wounded. If he himself was wounded, then how could he protect me? As I matured, as my feminist consciousness developed to include the recognition of patriarchal abuse of men, I could hear male pain. I could see men as comrades and fellow Travelers on the journey of life and not as existing merely to provide instrumental support.

Talking with men, I've been stunned when individual males would confess to sharing intense feelings with a male buddy, only to have that buddy either interrupt to silence the sharing; offer no response; or distance himself. Men of all ages who want to talk about feelings usually learn not to go to other men, and if they are heterosexual, they are far more likely to try sharing with woman they have been sexually intimate with. Women talk about the fact that intimate conversation with males often takes place in the brief moments before and after sex. And of course our mass media provides the image again and again of the man who goes to a sex worker to share his feelings, because there is no intimacy in that relationship, and therefore no real emotional risk. Being "vulnerable" is an emotional state that many men seek to avoid. Some men spend a lifetime in a state of avoidance and therefore never experience intimacy. Sadly, we have all colluded with the patriarchy, by faking it with men, pretending levels of intimacy and closeness that we do not feel. We tell men we love them, when we feel we have absolutely no clue as to who they really are. We tell fathers we love them, when we are terrified to share our perceptions of them, out of fear that if we disagree we will be cast out, we'll be excommunicated. In this way we all collude with patriarchal culture to make men men feel they can have it all; that they can Embrace patriarchal manhood and still hold their loved ones dear. In reality, the more patriarchal a man is, the more disconnected he must be from feeling, and if he cannot feel he cannot connect, if he cannot connect he cannot be intimate.

Before most men can be intimate with others, they have to be intimate with themselves. They have to learn to feel and be aware of their feelings. Men who mask feelings, or suppress them, simply do not want to feel the pain. Since emotional pain is the feeling that most males have covered up, numbed out or closed off, the journey back to feeling is frequently through the portal of suffering. Much male rage covers up this place of suffering, this is the well-kept secret. Often when a female gets close to male pain, penetrating the male mask to see the emotional vulnerability beneath, she becomes a target for the rage. Shame at emotional vulnerability is often what men who are closed down emotionally seek to hide. Since shaming is often used to socialize boys away from their feeling selves, toward the patriarchal male mask, many grown men have an internal shaming voice.

You create intimacy when you shift from the pursuit of external power: the ability to manipulate and control, to the pursuit of authentic power: the alignment of your personality with your soul.

There is no denying that our happiness is inextricably bound up with the happiness of others. There is no denying that if Society suffers, we ourselves suffer. Thus, we can reject everything else; religion, ideology, all received wisdom, but we cannot escape the necessity of love and compassion.

In chapter nine, the most interesting quote was about "loving" men who we fear, men we do not understand, men who are disconnected. It is interesting to think that collusion with the patriarchy can manifest itself as telling a male person that you love them (almost unconditionally).

I included part of the Dalai Lama quote, because it does speak about the suffering that people in society can see and feel from others around them.

this post was submitted on 24 Dec 2024
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A space for masculine folks to talk about living under patriarchy.

Detoxing masculinity since 1990!

You don’t get points for feminism, feminism is expected.

Guidelines:

  1. Questions over blame
  2. Humility over pride
  3. Wisdom over dogma
  4. Actions over image

Rules (expansions on the guidelines):

  1. Mistakes should be learning experiences when possible.
    • Do not attack comrades displaying vulnerability for what they acknowledge are mistakes.
    • If you see good-faith behavior that's toxic, do your best to explain why it's toxic.
    • If you don't have the energy to engage, report and move on.
    • This includes past mistakes. If you've overcome extreme reactionary behavior, we'd love to know how.
    • A widened range of acceptable discussion means a greater need for sensitivity and patience for your comrades.
    • Examples:
      • "This is reactionary. Here's why."
      • "I know that {reality}, but I feel like {toxicity}"
      • "I don't understand why this is reactionary, but it feels like it {spoilered details}"
  2. You are not entitled to the emotional labor of others.
    • Constantly info-dumping and letting us sort through your psyche is not healthy for any of us.
    • If you feel a criticism of you is unfair, do not lash out.
    • If you can't engage self-critically, delete your post.
    • If you don't know how to phrase why it's unfair, say so.
  3. No singular masculine ideal.
    • This includes promoting gender-neutral traits like "courage" or "integrity" as "manly".
    • Suggestions for an individual to replace a toxic ideal is fine.
    • Don't reinforce the idea the fulfillment requires masculinity.
    • This also includes tendency struggle-sessions.
  4. No lifestyle content.
    • Post the picture of your new grill in !food (feminine people like grills too smh my head).
    • Post the picture of the fish you caught in !sports (feminine people like fish too smdh my damn head).
    • At best, stuff like this is off-topic. At worst, it's reinforcing genders norms..
    • If you're not trying to be seen as masculine for your lifestyle content, it's irrelevant to this comm. If you are trying to be seen as masculine, let's have a discussion about why these things are seen as masculine.

Resources:

*The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love by Bell Hooks

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