▲ 1093 ▼ Saint Luigi (i.imgur.com) submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by TherapyGary@lemmy.blahaj.zone to c/lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world 172 comments fedilink hide all child comments Cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/34117495 [OC] Original still created by @gedogfx (IG). Title source: "Inkl" Edit: I'm not on any other social media platforms, so feel free to share this elsewhere if you want
[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 34 points 2 years ago (5 children) Hey, Americans, nothing stops your Democrat-run blue states from improving your healthcare. permalink fedilink source hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 23 points 2 years ago (1 child) massachusetts did it and it works great; not as good as single payer, sure, but better than the alternative. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Is this a reference to Romneycare or did they improve upon that? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 18 points 2 years ago (1 child) that's a bit of a misnomer since it was passed by the overwhelmingly democratic statehouse while romney fought it the entire time permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 years ago Sorry, I italicized it now. Anyone who uses that name, uses it in jest. The funniest part was during the ACA thing and him acting clueless. permalink fedilink source parent [–] UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml 20 points 2 years ago* (1 child) nothing stops your Democrat-run blue states from improving your healthcare. Given the two party system, and the fact that republicans arent in power in these states, that only leaves the Democrats themselves. End First Past The Post voting. Introduce competition into the electoral process. FREE voters ability to choose. But I guess that isn't profitable enough for some. Nothing lasts forever.... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 5 points 2 years ago (2 children) These sound like commitments you guys should be asking of the Democrats. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Bacano@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago They've been asked. Request was denied. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Serinus@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's certainly harder to do on a state level. There is no inter-state border control. Doing single payer on a state level is likely to bring in the worst cases from at least neighboring states. California might do it, but they have a few big advantages. First, their population is high enough that they can absorb a little cross state immigration without hitting the balance too hard. Second, the states near them tend to be more sparsely populated, unlike the east coast. Basically you're looking at only California and New York if you want to do it on a state level. And they're both going to face huge lobbying against it. If this is something you want to get done, it's got to have a lot of public support. And if you're able to gather that much public support, why not just do it federally? It works better that way anyway. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rekorse@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 years ago Cause the whole point is that we can't do anything federally but can at the state level. permalink fedilink source parent [–] vga@sopuli.xyz 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) I could be wrong, but it seems to me that decision-makers all over the planet are absolutely horrified at the idea of making any sweeping changes whatsover to health care system, whatever it is. Because they fear the very real possibility that they will cause masses of deaths due to complications during the transition and then that will be their legacy. If we take at face value that there exists a change that one can just simply make to the healthcare system, and then it will all be better, there's still going to be some kind of transition. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago The healthcare doesn't need to change. Just how it is funded. permalink fedilink source parent [–] regdog@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) "Nothing" you say? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 0 points 2 years ago Like, no Republicans... permalink fedilink source parent [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago (4 children) Capital flight. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 16 points 2 years ago (1 child) Out of California, New York, Massachusetts? Lol, yea right. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago Maybe. It's worth trying. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 7 points 2 years ago (2 children) Why? UHC is cheaper than the current system. You wouldn't need any extra taxes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] TheRagingGeek@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago Really shows me how traumatized I am by United Health Care when I see UHC and it immediately brings them to mind and not Universal. I had to put in some work to understand that Acronym permalink fedilink source parent [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml -4 points 2 years ago (3 children) It's only cheaper if you consider current healthcare costs. It would require tax increases, and under current progressive tax models, those would be disproportionately high for the upper class, for whom the increase would not offset the elimination of their healthcare premium. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 14 points 2 years ago (1 child) No, the sum of all premiums paid by all Americans is way more than is required. You could make it a flat tax and it'd still be cheaper. The tax increase is more than offset by the cost of premiums. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) That may be the case, but do you have any evidence or reasoning? There are a certain number of people right now who don't have insurance or who have very bad insurance, and a universal insurance would have to have to make up what's missing for those people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) There's a variety of ways to implement it, but the vast majority save trillions in the long run. https://www.citizen.org/news/fact-check-medicare-for-all-would-save-the-u-s-trillions-public-option-would-leave-millions-uninsured-not-garner-savings/ has a couple sources listed, even a Koch-funded institute found it would save money. The reasoning is simple: you cut out the middlemen who demand a portion of the premiums for themselves. Those costs are instantly removed, and there isn't really anything that starts costing more in return. There's also collective governmental bargaining on procedures and medication which lowers prices. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) I understand that it saves money overall. I don't understand how it could save money for individual high-income tax payers. At some earning level, your taxes will be raised by more than you would pay for insurance. Even under a flat tax, that has to be the case, right? You would need a regressive tax to actually make it beneficial to every single resident. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] orrk@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) ok, why should I care about the well off not getting to be quite the leaches they are now? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) Under current economic conditions, economic wealth is necessary for the functioning of the economy. Some (including me) would advocate for a redistribution/government seizure of capital, but I don't know of any economist who doesn't see it as a problem if the wealth is lost altogether. If taxes are imposed on a national level, it is less likely that the wealthy will flee to other countries than it is if they are imposed on a state level. Unless the government seizes all capital, or bans capital flight, there will always be a risk of losing that wealth to emigration. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] orrk@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Under current economic conditions, economic wealth is necessary for the functioning of the economy is it required? to an extent, yes. but do we need 60% of everything to be owned by 10% of the population? As for the Capital flight, that is a myth, even the implementation of straight wealth taxes don't see great multimillionaire migrations, because taxation isn't a very strong factor, in fact a golf course or tow is a stronger pull, example Scotland vs Ireland when the UK was still part of the EU saw more ultra wealthy live in Scotland, a region with a higher tax rate, than Ireland, primarily for golf courses. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) As for the Capital flight, that is a myth I'm not sure it's even negligible between countries, but I am specifically talking about capital flight between US states, where there is a very low barrier to exit. Do you have any reason to believe that isn't a phenomenon? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] orrk@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) even less so, "According to Young, though, the ultra-wealthy traditionally haven't migrated in droves following such tax hikes. Only %2.4 of U.S.-based millionaires move across state lines each year, roughly %15 of whom apparently do so for tax reasons. 'So it's like a small l fraction of a small fraction,' Young said. https://sociology.cornell.edu/news/final-reading-flight-myth permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago That's interesting, thank you. I'm still not sure it would be the same for them level of tax increase public healthcare would require, but maybe you're right. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Depends exactly on what is taxed. Regardless, the tax increase would be so low that moving is almost certainly not paying for itself. The government could also just increase taxes by a flat amount rather than a flat rate. Point is, there's plenty of options that give zero reason to assume capital flight will happen. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) a flat amount rather than a flat rate So a regressive tax permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Yes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago I would prefer a progressive tax which would be easier to do on the national level. permalink fedilink source parent [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) I said under current progressive tax models. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) It depends on the state. Massachusetts actually does have a flat income tax, so maybe it would be easier to do there. But even so, wealthy people might prefer to buy private plans, and see the tax as redundant. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) How so? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) I'm conceding that it might not always be the case. I don't have an answer to your question because I don't feel like doing the research and math to figure out what the top earners would pay in any given state under universal health insurance. It seems to me obvious that it would represent a large tax increase, and that that increase would disproportionately effect top earners. If you have reason to believe it would universally save people money, I'm all ears for a reason or argument. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml -2 points 2 years ago I never said it wouldn't be cheaper overall, I'm aware that's true. I'm saying for top earners, it won't. Insurance costs the same for everyone, taxes don't. The only way around that entirely is a regressive tax. permalink fedilink source parent [–] TheRagingGeek@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago Yeah we need to deflate the disproportionately high pricing of the health care caused by insurance as well, if we could get it at the national level we could eliminate a lot of the back office overhead, and then maybe negotiate a revisit of the master charge list so that Tylenol in hospital isn't something crazy like $250 dollars a dose. State by state this would probably be much more difficult. permalink fedilink source parent [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] Dozzi92@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago Yeah, Jersey is nicely blued, but beholden to big pharma, and I think messing with healthcare hits too close to home. Governor race is next year though and so hopefully this issue stays hot. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 23 points 2 years ago (1 child) massachusetts did it and it works great; not as good as single payer, sure, but better than the alternative. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Is this a reference to Romneycare or did they improve upon that? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 18 points 2 years ago (1 child) that's a bit of a misnomer since it was passed by the overwhelmingly democratic statehouse while romney fought it the entire time permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 years ago Sorry, I italicized it now. Anyone who uses that name, uses it in jest. The funniest part was during the ACA thing and him acting clueless. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Is this a reference to Romneycare or did they improve upon that? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 18 points 2 years ago (1 child) that's a bit of a misnomer since it was passed by the overwhelmingly democratic statehouse while romney fought it the entire time permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 years ago Sorry, I italicized it now. Anyone who uses that name, uses it in jest. The funniest part was during the ACA thing and him acting clueless. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 18 points 2 years ago (1 child) that's a bit of a misnomer since it was passed by the overwhelmingly democratic statehouse while romney fought it the entire time permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 years ago Sorry, I italicized it now. Anyone who uses that name, uses it in jest. The funniest part was during the ACA thing and him acting clueless. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 years ago Sorry, I italicized it now. Anyone who uses that name, uses it in jest. The funniest part was during the ACA thing and him acting clueless. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml 20 points 2 years ago* (1 child) nothing stops your Democrat-run blue states from improving your healthcare. Given the two party system, and the fact that republicans arent in power in these states, that only leaves the Democrats themselves. End First Past The Post voting. Introduce competition into the electoral process. FREE voters ability to choose. But I guess that isn't profitable enough for some. Nothing lasts forever.... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 5 points 2 years ago (2 children) These sound like commitments you guys should be asking of the Democrats. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Bacano@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago They've been asked. Request was denied. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Serinus@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's certainly harder to do on a state level. There is no inter-state border control. Doing single payer on a state level is likely to bring in the worst cases from at least neighboring states. California might do it, but they have a few big advantages. First, their population is high enough that they can absorb a little cross state immigration without hitting the balance too hard. Second, the states near them tend to be more sparsely populated, unlike the east coast. Basically you're looking at only California and New York if you want to do it on a state level. And they're both going to face huge lobbying against it. If this is something you want to get done, it's got to have a lot of public support. And if you're able to gather that much public support, why not just do it federally? It works better that way anyway. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rekorse@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 years ago Cause the whole point is that we can't do anything federally but can at the state level. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 5 points 2 years ago (2 children) These sound like commitments you guys should be asking of the Democrats. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Bacano@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago They've been asked. Request was denied. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Serinus@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's certainly harder to do on a state level. There is no inter-state border control. Doing single payer on a state level is likely to bring in the worst cases from at least neighboring states. California might do it, but they have a few big advantages. First, their population is high enough that they can absorb a little cross state immigration without hitting the balance too hard. Second, the states near them tend to be more sparsely populated, unlike the east coast. Basically you're looking at only California and New York if you want to do it on a state level. And they're both going to face huge lobbying against it. If this is something you want to get done, it's got to have a lot of public support. And if you're able to gather that much public support, why not just do it federally? It works better that way anyway. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rekorse@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 years ago Cause the whole point is that we can't do anything federally but can at the state level. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Bacano@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago They've been asked. Request was denied. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Serinus@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's certainly harder to do on a state level. There is no inter-state border control. Doing single payer on a state level is likely to bring in the worst cases from at least neighboring states. California might do it, but they have a few big advantages. First, their population is high enough that they can absorb a little cross state immigration without hitting the balance too hard. Second, the states near them tend to be more sparsely populated, unlike the east coast. Basically you're looking at only California and New York if you want to do it on a state level. And they're both going to face huge lobbying against it. If this is something you want to get done, it's got to have a lot of public support. And if you're able to gather that much public support, why not just do it federally? It works better that way anyway. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rekorse@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 years ago Cause the whole point is that we can't do anything federally but can at the state level. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Rekorse@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 years ago Cause the whole point is that we can't do anything federally but can at the state level. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] vga@sopuli.xyz 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) I could be wrong, but it seems to me that decision-makers all over the planet are absolutely horrified at the idea of making any sweeping changes whatsover to health care system, whatever it is. Because they fear the very real possibility that they will cause masses of deaths due to complications during the transition and then that will be their legacy. If we take at face value that there exists a change that one can just simply make to the healthcare system, and then it will all be better, there's still going to be some kind of transition. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago The healthcare doesn't need to change. Just how it is funded. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago The healthcare doesn't need to change. Just how it is funded. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] regdog@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) "Nothing" you say? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 0 points 2 years ago Like, no Republicans... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 0 points 2 years ago Like, no Republicans... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago (4 children) Capital flight. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 16 points 2 years ago (1 child) Out of California, New York, Massachusetts? Lol, yea right. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago Maybe. It's worth trying. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 7 points 2 years ago (2 children) Why? UHC is cheaper than the current system. You wouldn't need any extra taxes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] TheRagingGeek@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago Really shows me how traumatized I am by United Health Care when I see UHC and it immediately brings them to mind and not Universal. I had to put in some work to understand that Acronym permalink fedilink source parent [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml -4 points 2 years ago (3 children) It's only cheaper if you consider current healthcare costs. It would require tax increases, and under current progressive tax models, those would be disproportionately high for the upper class, for whom the increase would not offset the elimination of their healthcare premium. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 14 points 2 years ago (1 child) No, the sum of all premiums paid by all Americans is way more than is required. You could make it a flat tax and it'd still be cheaper. The tax increase is more than offset by the cost of premiums. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) That may be the case, but do you have any evidence or reasoning? There are a certain number of people right now who don't have insurance or who have very bad insurance, and a universal insurance would have to have to make up what's missing for those people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) There's a variety of ways to implement it, but the vast majority save trillions in the long run. https://www.citizen.org/news/fact-check-medicare-for-all-would-save-the-u-s-trillions-public-option-would-leave-millions-uninsured-not-garner-savings/ has a couple sources listed, even a Koch-funded institute found it would save money. The reasoning is simple: you cut out the middlemen who demand a portion of the premiums for themselves. Those costs are instantly removed, and there isn't really anything that starts costing more in return. There's also collective governmental bargaining on procedures and medication which lowers prices. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) I understand that it saves money overall. I don't understand how it could save money for individual high-income tax payers. At some earning level, your taxes will be raised by more than you would pay for insurance. Even under a flat tax, that has to be the case, right? You would need a regressive tax to actually make it beneficial to every single resident. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] orrk@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) ok, why should I care about the well off not getting to be quite the leaches they are now? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) Under current economic conditions, economic wealth is necessary for the functioning of the economy. Some (including me) would advocate for a redistribution/government seizure of capital, but I don't know of any economist who doesn't see it as a problem if the wealth is lost altogether. If taxes are imposed on a national level, it is less likely that the wealthy will flee to other countries than it is if they are imposed on a state level. Unless the government seizes all capital, or bans capital flight, there will always be a risk of losing that wealth to emigration. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] orrk@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Under current economic conditions, economic wealth is necessary for the functioning of the economy is it required? to an extent, yes. but do we need 60% of everything to be owned by 10% of the population? As for the Capital flight, that is a myth, even the implementation of straight wealth taxes don't see great multimillionaire migrations, because taxation isn't a very strong factor, in fact a golf course or tow is a stronger pull, example Scotland vs Ireland when the UK was still part of the EU saw more ultra wealthy live in Scotland, a region with a higher tax rate, than Ireland, primarily for golf courses. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) As for the Capital flight, that is a myth I'm not sure it's even negligible between countries, but I am specifically talking about capital flight between US states, where there is a very low barrier to exit. Do you have any reason to believe that isn't a phenomenon? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] orrk@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) even less so, "According to Young, though, the ultra-wealthy traditionally haven't migrated in droves following such tax hikes. Only %2.4 of U.S.-based millionaires move across state lines each year, roughly %15 of whom apparently do so for tax reasons. 'So it's like a small l fraction of a small fraction,' Young said. https://sociology.cornell.edu/news/final-reading-flight-myth permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago That's interesting, thank you. I'm still not sure it would be the same for them level of tax increase public healthcare would require, but maybe you're right. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Depends exactly on what is taxed. Regardless, the tax increase would be so low that moving is almost certainly not paying for itself. The government could also just increase taxes by a flat amount rather than a flat rate. Point is, there's plenty of options that give zero reason to assume capital flight will happen. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) a flat amount rather than a flat rate So a regressive tax permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Yes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago I would prefer a progressive tax which would be easier to do on the national level. permalink fedilink source parent [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) I said under current progressive tax models. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) It depends on the state. Massachusetts actually does have a flat income tax, so maybe it would be easier to do there. But even so, wealthy people might prefer to buy private plans, and see the tax as redundant. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) How so? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) I'm conceding that it might not always be the case. I don't have an answer to your question because I don't feel like doing the research and math to figure out what the top earners would pay in any given state under universal health insurance. It seems to me obvious that it would represent a large tax increase, and that that increase would disproportionately effect top earners. If you have reason to believe it would universally save people money, I'm all ears for a reason or argument. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml -2 points 2 years ago I never said it wouldn't be cheaper overall, I'm aware that's true. I'm saying for top earners, it won't. Insurance costs the same for everyone, taxes don't. The only way around that entirely is a regressive tax. permalink fedilink source parent [–] TheRagingGeek@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago Yeah we need to deflate the disproportionately high pricing of the health care caused by insurance as well, if we could get it at the national level we could eliminate a lot of the back office overhead, and then maybe negotiate a revisit of the master charge list so that Tylenol in hospital isn't something crazy like $250 dollars a dose. State by state this would probably be much more difficult. permalink fedilink source parent [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] Dozzi92@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago Yeah, Jersey is nicely blued, but beholden to big pharma, and I think messing with healthcare hits too close to home. Governor race is next year though and so hopefully this issue stays hot. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 16 points 2 years ago (1 child) Out of California, New York, Massachusetts? Lol, yea right. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago Maybe. It's worth trying. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 7 points 2 years ago (2 children) Why? UHC is cheaper than the current system. You wouldn't need any extra taxes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] TheRagingGeek@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago Really shows me how traumatized I am by United Health Care when I see UHC and it immediately brings them to mind and not Universal. I had to put in some work to understand that Acronym permalink fedilink source parent [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml -4 points 2 years ago (3 children) It's only cheaper if you consider current healthcare costs. It would require tax increases, and under current progressive tax models, those would be disproportionately high for the upper class, for whom the increase would not offset the elimination of their healthcare premium. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 14 points 2 years ago (1 child) No, the sum of all premiums paid by all Americans is way more than is required. You could make it a flat tax and it'd still be cheaper. The tax increase is more than offset by the cost of premiums. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) That may be the case, but do you have any evidence or reasoning? There are a certain number of people right now who don't have insurance or who have very bad insurance, and a universal insurance would have to have to make up what's missing for those people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) There's a variety of ways to implement it, but the vast majority save trillions in the long run. https://www.citizen.org/news/fact-check-medicare-for-all-would-save-the-u-s-trillions-public-option-would-leave-millions-uninsured-not-garner-savings/ has a couple sources listed, even a Koch-funded institute found it would save money. The reasoning is simple: you cut out the middlemen who demand a portion of the premiums for themselves. Those costs are instantly removed, and there isn't really anything that starts costing more in return. There's also collective governmental bargaining on procedures and medication which lowers prices. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) I understand that it saves money overall. I don't understand how it could save money for individual high-income tax payers. At some earning level, your taxes will be raised by more than you would pay for insurance. Even under a flat tax, that has to be the case, right? You would need a regressive tax to actually make it beneficial to every single resident. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] orrk@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) ok, why should I care about the well off not getting to be quite the leaches they are now? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) Under current economic conditions, economic wealth is necessary for the functioning of the economy. Some (including me) would advocate for a redistribution/government seizure of capital, but I don't know of any economist who doesn't see it as a problem if the wealth is lost altogether. If taxes are imposed on a national level, it is less likely that the wealthy will flee to other countries than it is if they are imposed on a state level. Unless the government seizes all capital, or bans capital flight, there will always be a risk of losing that wealth to emigration. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] orrk@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Under current economic conditions, economic wealth is necessary for the functioning of the economy is it required? to an extent, yes. but do we need 60% of everything to be owned by 10% of the population? As for the Capital flight, that is a myth, even the implementation of straight wealth taxes don't see great multimillionaire migrations, because taxation isn't a very strong factor, in fact a golf course or tow is a stronger pull, example Scotland vs Ireland when the UK was still part of the EU saw more ultra wealthy live in Scotland, a region with a higher tax rate, than Ireland, primarily for golf courses. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) As for the Capital flight, that is a myth I'm not sure it's even negligible between countries, but I am specifically talking about capital flight between US states, where there is a very low barrier to exit. Do you have any reason to believe that isn't a phenomenon? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] orrk@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) even less so, "According to Young, though, the ultra-wealthy traditionally haven't migrated in droves following such tax hikes. Only %2.4 of U.S.-based millionaires move across state lines each year, roughly %15 of whom apparently do so for tax reasons. 'So it's like a small l fraction of a small fraction,' Young said. https://sociology.cornell.edu/news/final-reading-flight-myth permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago That's interesting, thank you. I'm still not sure it would be the same for them level of tax increase public healthcare would require, but maybe you're right. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Depends exactly on what is taxed. Regardless, the tax increase would be so low that moving is almost certainly not paying for itself. The government could also just increase taxes by a flat amount rather than a flat rate. Point is, there's plenty of options that give zero reason to assume capital flight will happen. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) a flat amount rather than a flat rate So a regressive tax permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Yes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago I would prefer a progressive tax which would be easier to do on the national level. permalink fedilink source parent [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) I said under current progressive tax models. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) It depends on the state. Massachusetts actually does have a flat income tax, so maybe it would be easier to do there. But even so, wealthy people might prefer to buy private plans, and see the tax as redundant. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) How so? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) I'm conceding that it might not always be the case. I don't have an answer to your question because I don't feel like doing the research and math to figure out what the top earners would pay in any given state under universal health insurance. It seems to me obvious that it would represent a large tax increase, and that that increase would disproportionately effect top earners. If you have reason to believe it would universally save people money, I'm all ears for a reason or argument. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml -2 points 2 years ago I never said it wouldn't be cheaper overall, I'm aware that's true. I'm saying for top earners, it won't. Insurance costs the same for everyone, taxes don't. The only way around that entirely is a regressive tax. permalink fedilink source parent [–] TheRagingGeek@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago Yeah we need to deflate the disproportionately high pricing of the health care caused by insurance as well, if we could get it at the national level we could eliminate a lot of the back office overhead, and then maybe negotiate a revisit of the master charge list so that Tylenol in hospital isn't something crazy like $250 dollars a dose. State by state this would probably be much more difficult. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TheRagingGeek@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago Really shows me how traumatized I am by United Health Care when I see UHC and it immediately brings them to mind and not Universal. I had to put in some work to understand that Acronym permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Dragon@lemmy.ml -4 points 2 years ago (3 children) It's only cheaper if you consider current healthcare costs. It would require tax increases, and under current progressive tax models, those would be disproportionately high for the upper class, for whom the increase would not offset the elimination of their healthcare premium. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 14 points 2 years ago (1 child) No, the sum of all premiums paid by all Americans is way more than is required. You could make it a flat tax and it'd still be cheaper. The tax increase is more than offset by the cost of premiums. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) That may be the case, but do you have any evidence or reasoning? There are a certain number of people right now who don't have insurance or who have very bad insurance, and a universal insurance would have to have to make up what's missing for those people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) There's a variety of ways to implement it, but the vast majority save trillions in the long run. https://www.citizen.org/news/fact-check-medicare-for-all-would-save-the-u-s-trillions-public-option-would-leave-millions-uninsured-not-garner-savings/ has a couple sources listed, even a Koch-funded institute found it would save money. The reasoning is simple: you cut out the middlemen who demand a portion of the premiums for themselves. Those costs are instantly removed, and there isn't really anything that starts costing more in return. There's also collective governmental bargaining on procedures and medication which lowers prices. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) I understand that it saves money overall. I don't understand how it could save money for individual high-income tax payers. At some earning level, your taxes will be raised by more than you would pay for insurance. Even under a flat tax, that has to be the case, right? You would need a regressive tax to actually make it beneficial to every single resident. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] orrk@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) ok, why should I care about the well off not getting to be quite the leaches they are now? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) Under current economic conditions, economic wealth is necessary for the functioning of the economy. Some (including me) would advocate for a redistribution/government seizure of capital, but I don't know of any economist who doesn't see it as a problem if the wealth is lost altogether. If taxes are imposed on a national level, it is less likely that the wealthy will flee to other countries than it is if they are imposed on a state level. Unless the government seizes all capital, or bans capital flight, there will always be a risk of losing that wealth to emigration. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] orrk@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Under current economic conditions, economic wealth is necessary for the functioning of the economy is it required? to an extent, yes. but do we need 60% of everything to be owned by 10% of the population? As for the Capital flight, that is a myth, even the implementation of straight wealth taxes don't see great multimillionaire migrations, because taxation isn't a very strong factor, in fact a golf course or tow is a stronger pull, example Scotland vs Ireland when the UK was still part of the EU saw more ultra wealthy live in Scotland, a region with a higher tax rate, than Ireland, primarily for golf courses. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) As for the Capital flight, that is a myth I'm not sure it's even negligible between countries, but I am specifically talking about capital flight between US states, where there is a very low barrier to exit. Do you have any reason to believe that isn't a phenomenon? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] orrk@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) even less so, "According to Young, though, the ultra-wealthy traditionally haven't migrated in droves following such tax hikes. Only %2.4 of U.S.-based millionaires move across state lines each year, roughly %15 of whom apparently do so for tax reasons. 'So it's like a small l fraction of a small fraction,' Young said. https://sociology.cornell.edu/news/final-reading-flight-myth permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago That's interesting, thank you. I'm still not sure it would be the same for them level of tax increase public healthcare would require, but maybe you're right. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Depends exactly on what is taxed. Regardless, the tax increase would be so low that moving is almost certainly not paying for itself. The government could also just increase taxes by a flat amount rather than a flat rate. Point is, there's plenty of options that give zero reason to assume capital flight will happen. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) a flat amount rather than a flat rate So a regressive tax permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Yes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago I would prefer a progressive tax which would be easier to do on the national level. permalink fedilink source parent [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) I said under current progressive tax models. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) It depends on the state. Massachusetts actually does have a flat income tax, so maybe it would be easier to do there. But even so, wealthy people might prefer to buy private plans, and see the tax as redundant. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) How so? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) I'm conceding that it might not always be the case. I don't have an answer to your question because I don't feel like doing the research and math to figure out what the top earners would pay in any given state under universal health insurance. It seems to me obvious that it would represent a large tax increase, and that that increase would disproportionately effect top earners. If you have reason to believe it would universally save people money, I'm all ears for a reason or argument. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml -2 points 2 years ago I never said it wouldn't be cheaper overall, I'm aware that's true. I'm saying for top earners, it won't. Insurance costs the same for everyone, taxes don't. The only way around that entirely is a regressive tax. permalink fedilink source parent [–] TheRagingGeek@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago Yeah we need to deflate the disproportionately high pricing of the health care caused by insurance as well, if we could get it at the national level we could eliminate a lot of the back office overhead, and then maybe negotiate a revisit of the master charge list so that Tylenol in hospital isn't something crazy like $250 dollars a dose. State by state this would probably be much more difficult. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 14 points 2 years ago (1 child) No, the sum of all premiums paid by all Americans is way more than is required. You could make it a flat tax and it'd still be cheaper. The tax increase is more than offset by the cost of premiums. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) That may be the case, but do you have any evidence or reasoning? There are a certain number of people right now who don't have insurance or who have very bad insurance, and a universal insurance would have to have to make up what's missing for those people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) There's a variety of ways to implement it, but the vast majority save trillions in the long run. https://www.citizen.org/news/fact-check-medicare-for-all-would-save-the-u-s-trillions-public-option-would-leave-millions-uninsured-not-garner-savings/ has a couple sources listed, even a Koch-funded institute found it would save money. The reasoning is simple: you cut out the middlemen who demand a portion of the premiums for themselves. Those costs are instantly removed, and there isn't really anything that starts costing more in return. There's also collective governmental bargaining on procedures and medication which lowers prices. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) I understand that it saves money overall. I don't understand how it could save money for individual high-income tax payers. At some earning level, your taxes will be raised by more than you would pay for insurance. Even under a flat tax, that has to be the case, right? You would need a regressive tax to actually make it beneficial to every single resident. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] orrk@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) ok, why should I care about the well off not getting to be quite the leaches they are now? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) Under current economic conditions, economic wealth is necessary for the functioning of the economy. Some (including me) would advocate for a redistribution/government seizure of capital, but I don't know of any economist who doesn't see it as a problem if the wealth is lost altogether. If taxes are imposed on a national level, it is less likely that the wealthy will flee to other countries than it is if they are imposed on a state level. Unless the government seizes all capital, or bans capital flight, there will always be a risk of losing that wealth to emigration. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] orrk@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Under current economic conditions, economic wealth is necessary for the functioning of the economy is it required? to an extent, yes. but do we need 60% of everything to be owned by 10% of the population? As for the Capital flight, that is a myth, even the implementation of straight wealth taxes don't see great multimillionaire migrations, because taxation isn't a very strong factor, in fact a golf course or tow is a stronger pull, example Scotland vs Ireland when the UK was still part of the EU saw more ultra wealthy live in Scotland, a region with a higher tax rate, than Ireland, primarily for golf courses. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) As for the Capital flight, that is a myth I'm not sure it's even negligible between countries, but I am specifically talking about capital flight between US states, where there is a very low barrier to exit. Do you have any reason to believe that isn't a phenomenon? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] orrk@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) even less so, "According to Young, though, the ultra-wealthy traditionally haven't migrated in droves following such tax hikes. Only %2.4 of U.S.-based millionaires move across state lines each year, roughly %15 of whom apparently do so for tax reasons. 'So it's like a small l fraction of a small fraction,' Young said. https://sociology.cornell.edu/news/final-reading-flight-myth permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago That's interesting, thank you. I'm still not sure it would be the same for them level of tax increase public healthcare would require, but maybe you're right. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Depends exactly on what is taxed. Regardless, the tax increase would be so low that moving is almost certainly not paying for itself. The government could also just increase taxes by a flat amount rather than a flat rate. Point is, there's plenty of options that give zero reason to assume capital flight will happen. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) a flat amount rather than a flat rate So a regressive tax permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Yes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago I would prefer a progressive tax which would be easier to do on the national level. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Dragon@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) That may be the case, but do you have any evidence or reasoning? There are a certain number of people right now who don't have insurance or who have very bad insurance, and a universal insurance would have to have to make up what's missing for those people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) There's a variety of ways to implement it, but the vast majority save trillions in the long run. https://www.citizen.org/news/fact-check-medicare-for-all-would-save-the-u-s-trillions-public-option-would-leave-millions-uninsured-not-garner-savings/ has a couple sources listed, even a Koch-funded institute found it would save money. The reasoning is simple: you cut out the middlemen who demand a portion of the premiums for themselves. Those costs are instantly removed, and there isn't really anything that starts costing more in return. There's also collective governmental bargaining on procedures and medication which lowers prices. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) I understand that it saves money overall. I don't understand how it could save money for individual high-income tax payers. At some earning level, your taxes will be raised by more than you would pay for insurance. Even under a flat tax, that has to be the case, right? You would need a regressive tax to actually make it beneficial to every single resident. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] orrk@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) ok, why should I care about the well off not getting to be quite the leaches they are now? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) Under current economic conditions, economic wealth is necessary for the functioning of the economy. Some (including me) would advocate for a redistribution/government seizure of capital, but I don't know of any economist who doesn't see it as a problem if the wealth is lost altogether. If taxes are imposed on a national level, it is less likely that the wealthy will flee to other countries than it is if they are imposed on a state level. Unless the government seizes all capital, or bans capital flight, there will always be a risk of losing that wealth to emigration. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] orrk@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Under current economic conditions, economic wealth is necessary for the functioning of the economy is it required? to an extent, yes. but do we need 60% of everything to be owned by 10% of the population? As for the Capital flight, that is a myth, even the implementation of straight wealth taxes don't see great multimillionaire migrations, because taxation isn't a very strong factor, in fact a golf course or tow is a stronger pull, example Scotland vs Ireland when the UK was still part of the EU saw more ultra wealthy live in Scotland, a region with a higher tax rate, than Ireland, primarily for golf courses. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) As for the Capital flight, that is a myth I'm not sure it's even negligible between countries, but I am specifically talking about capital flight between US states, where there is a very low barrier to exit. Do you have any reason to believe that isn't a phenomenon? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] orrk@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) even less so, "According to Young, though, the ultra-wealthy traditionally haven't migrated in droves following such tax hikes. Only %2.4 of U.S.-based millionaires move across state lines each year, roughly %15 of whom apparently do so for tax reasons. 'So it's like a small l fraction of a small fraction,' Young said. https://sociology.cornell.edu/news/final-reading-flight-myth permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago That's interesting, thank you. I'm still not sure it would be the same for them level of tax increase public healthcare would require, but maybe you're right. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Depends exactly on what is taxed. Regardless, the tax increase would be so low that moving is almost certainly not paying for itself. The government could also just increase taxes by a flat amount rather than a flat rate. Point is, there's plenty of options that give zero reason to assume capital flight will happen. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) a flat amount rather than a flat rate So a regressive tax permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Yes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago I would prefer a progressive tax which would be easier to do on the national level. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) There's a variety of ways to implement it, but the vast majority save trillions in the long run. https://www.citizen.org/news/fact-check-medicare-for-all-would-save-the-u-s-trillions-public-option-would-leave-millions-uninsured-not-garner-savings/ has a couple sources listed, even a Koch-funded institute found it would save money. The reasoning is simple: you cut out the middlemen who demand a portion of the premiums for themselves. Those costs are instantly removed, and there isn't really anything that starts costing more in return. There's also collective governmental bargaining on procedures and medication which lowers prices. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) I understand that it saves money overall. I don't understand how it could save money for individual high-income tax payers. At some earning level, your taxes will be raised by more than you would pay for insurance. Even under a flat tax, that has to be the case, right? You would need a regressive tax to actually make it beneficial to every single resident. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] orrk@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) ok, why should I care about the well off not getting to be quite the leaches they are now? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) Under current economic conditions, economic wealth is necessary for the functioning of the economy. Some (including me) would advocate for a redistribution/government seizure of capital, but I don't know of any economist who doesn't see it as a problem if the wealth is lost altogether. If taxes are imposed on a national level, it is less likely that the wealthy will flee to other countries than it is if they are imposed on a state level. Unless the government seizes all capital, or bans capital flight, there will always be a risk of losing that wealth to emigration. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] orrk@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Under current economic conditions, economic wealth is necessary for the functioning of the economy is it required? to an extent, yes. but do we need 60% of everything to be owned by 10% of the population? As for the Capital flight, that is a myth, even the implementation of straight wealth taxes don't see great multimillionaire migrations, because taxation isn't a very strong factor, in fact a golf course or tow is a stronger pull, example Scotland vs Ireland when the UK was still part of the EU saw more ultra wealthy live in Scotland, a region with a higher tax rate, than Ireland, primarily for golf courses. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) As for the Capital flight, that is a myth I'm not sure it's even negligible between countries, but I am specifically talking about capital flight between US states, where there is a very low barrier to exit. Do you have any reason to believe that isn't a phenomenon? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] orrk@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) even less so, "According to Young, though, the ultra-wealthy traditionally haven't migrated in droves following such tax hikes. Only %2.4 of U.S.-based millionaires move across state lines each year, roughly %15 of whom apparently do so for tax reasons. 'So it's like a small l fraction of a small fraction,' Young said. https://sociology.cornell.edu/news/final-reading-flight-myth permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago That's interesting, thank you. I'm still not sure it would be the same for them level of tax increase public healthcare would require, but maybe you're right. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Depends exactly on what is taxed. Regardless, the tax increase would be so low that moving is almost certainly not paying for itself. The government could also just increase taxes by a flat amount rather than a flat rate. Point is, there's plenty of options that give zero reason to assume capital flight will happen. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) a flat amount rather than a flat rate So a regressive tax permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Yes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago I would prefer a progressive tax which would be easier to do on the national level. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Dragon@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) I understand that it saves money overall. I don't understand how it could save money for individual high-income tax payers. At some earning level, your taxes will be raised by more than you would pay for insurance. Even under a flat tax, that has to be the case, right? You would need a regressive tax to actually make it beneficial to every single resident. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] orrk@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) ok, why should I care about the well off not getting to be quite the leaches they are now? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) Under current economic conditions, economic wealth is necessary for the functioning of the economy. Some (including me) would advocate for a redistribution/government seizure of capital, but I don't know of any economist who doesn't see it as a problem if the wealth is lost altogether. If taxes are imposed on a national level, it is less likely that the wealthy will flee to other countries than it is if they are imposed on a state level. Unless the government seizes all capital, or bans capital flight, there will always be a risk of losing that wealth to emigration. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] orrk@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Under current economic conditions, economic wealth is necessary for the functioning of the economy is it required? to an extent, yes. but do we need 60% of everything to be owned by 10% of the population? As for the Capital flight, that is a myth, even the implementation of straight wealth taxes don't see great multimillionaire migrations, because taxation isn't a very strong factor, in fact a golf course or tow is a stronger pull, example Scotland vs Ireland when the UK was still part of the EU saw more ultra wealthy live in Scotland, a region with a higher tax rate, than Ireland, primarily for golf courses. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) As for the Capital flight, that is a myth I'm not sure it's even negligible between countries, but I am specifically talking about capital flight between US states, where there is a very low barrier to exit. Do you have any reason to believe that isn't a phenomenon? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] orrk@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) even less so, "According to Young, though, the ultra-wealthy traditionally haven't migrated in droves following such tax hikes. Only %2.4 of U.S.-based millionaires move across state lines each year, roughly %15 of whom apparently do so for tax reasons. 'So it's like a small l fraction of a small fraction,' Young said. https://sociology.cornell.edu/news/final-reading-flight-myth permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago That's interesting, thank you. I'm still not sure it would be the same for them level of tax increase public healthcare would require, but maybe you're right. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Depends exactly on what is taxed. Regardless, the tax increase would be so low that moving is almost certainly not paying for itself. The government could also just increase taxes by a flat amount rather than a flat rate. Point is, there's plenty of options that give zero reason to assume capital flight will happen. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) a flat amount rather than a flat rate So a regressive tax permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Yes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago I would prefer a progressive tax which would be easier to do on the national level. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] orrk@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) ok, why should I care about the well off not getting to be quite the leaches they are now? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) Under current economic conditions, economic wealth is necessary for the functioning of the economy. Some (including me) would advocate for a redistribution/government seizure of capital, but I don't know of any economist who doesn't see it as a problem if the wealth is lost altogether. If taxes are imposed on a national level, it is less likely that the wealthy will flee to other countries than it is if they are imposed on a state level. Unless the government seizes all capital, or bans capital flight, there will always be a risk of losing that wealth to emigration. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] orrk@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Under current economic conditions, economic wealth is necessary for the functioning of the economy is it required? to an extent, yes. but do we need 60% of everything to be owned by 10% of the population? As for the Capital flight, that is a myth, even the implementation of straight wealth taxes don't see great multimillionaire migrations, because taxation isn't a very strong factor, in fact a golf course or tow is a stronger pull, example Scotland vs Ireland when the UK was still part of the EU saw more ultra wealthy live in Scotland, a region with a higher tax rate, than Ireland, primarily for golf courses. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) As for the Capital flight, that is a myth I'm not sure it's even negligible between countries, but I am specifically talking about capital flight between US states, where there is a very low barrier to exit. Do you have any reason to believe that isn't a phenomenon? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] orrk@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) even less so, "According to Young, though, the ultra-wealthy traditionally haven't migrated in droves following such tax hikes. Only %2.4 of U.S.-based millionaires move across state lines each year, roughly %15 of whom apparently do so for tax reasons. 'So it's like a small l fraction of a small fraction,' Young said. https://sociology.cornell.edu/news/final-reading-flight-myth permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago That's interesting, thank you. I'm still not sure it would be the same for them level of tax increase public healthcare would require, but maybe you're right. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) Under current economic conditions, economic wealth is necessary for the functioning of the economy. Some (including me) would advocate for a redistribution/government seizure of capital, but I don't know of any economist who doesn't see it as a problem if the wealth is lost altogether. If taxes are imposed on a national level, it is less likely that the wealthy will flee to other countries than it is if they are imposed on a state level. Unless the government seizes all capital, or bans capital flight, there will always be a risk of losing that wealth to emigration. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] orrk@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Under current economic conditions, economic wealth is necessary for the functioning of the economy is it required? to an extent, yes. but do we need 60% of everything to be owned by 10% of the population? As for the Capital flight, that is a myth, even the implementation of straight wealth taxes don't see great multimillionaire migrations, because taxation isn't a very strong factor, in fact a golf course or tow is a stronger pull, example Scotland vs Ireland when the UK was still part of the EU saw more ultra wealthy live in Scotland, a region with a higher tax rate, than Ireland, primarily for golf courses. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) As for the Capital flight, that is a myth I'm not sure it's even negligible between countries, but I am specifically talking about capital flight between US states, where there is a very low barrier to exit. Do you have any reason to believe that isn't a phenomenon? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] orrk@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) even less so, "According to Young, though, the ultra-wealthy traditionally haven't migrated in droves following such tax hikes. Only %2.4 of U.S.-based millionaires move across state lines each year, roughly %15 of whom apparently do so for tax reasons. 'So it's like a small l fraction of a small fraction,' Young said. https://sociology.cornell.edu/news/final-reading-flight-myth permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago That's interesting, thank you. I'm still not sure it would be the same for them level of tax increase public healthcare would require, but maybe you're right. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] orrk@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Under current economic conditions, economic wealth is necessary for the functioning of the economy is it required? to an extent, yes. but do we need 60% of everything to be owned by 10% of the population? As for the Capital flight, that is a myth, even the implementation of straight wealth taxes don't see great multimillionaire migrations, because taxation isn't a very strong factor, in fact a golf course or tow is a stronger pull, example Scotland vs Ireland when the UK was still part of the EU saw more ultra wealthy live in Scotland, a region with a higher tax rate, than Ireland, primarily for golf courses. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) As for the Capital flight, that is a myth I'm not sure it's even negligible between countries, but I am specifically talking about capital flight between US states, where there is a very low barrier to exit. Do you have any reason to believe that isn't a phenomenon? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] orrk@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) even less so, "According to Young, though, the ultra-wealthy traditionally haven't migrated in droves following such tax hikes. Only %2.4 of U.S.-based millionaires move across state lines each year, roughly %15 of whom apparently do so for tax reasons. 'So it's like a small l fraction of a small fraction,' Young said. https://sociology.cornell.edu/news/final-reading-flight-myth permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago That's interesting, thank you. I'm still not sure it would be the same for them level of tax increase public healthcare would require, but maybe you're right. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) As for the Capital flight, that is a myth I'm not sure it's even negligible between countries, but I am specifically talking about capital flight between US states, where there is a very low barrier to exit. Do you have any reason to believe that isn't a phenomenon? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] orrk@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) even less so, "According to Young, though, the ultra-wealthy traditionally haven't migrated in droves following such tax hikes. Only %2.4 of U.S.-based millionaires move across state lines each year, roughly %15 of whom apparently do so for tax reasons. 'So it's like a small l fraction of a small fraction,' Young said. https://sociology.cornell.edu/news/final-reading-flight-myth permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago That's interesting, thank you. I'm still not sure it would be the same for them level of tax increase public healthcare would require, but maybe you're right. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] orrk@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) even less so, "According to Young, though, the ultra-wealthy traditionally haven't migrated in droves following such tax hikes. Only %2.4 of U.S.-based millionaires move across state lines each year, roughly %15 of whom apparently do so for tax reasons. 'So it's like a small l fraction of a small fraction,' Young said. https://sociology.cornell.edu/news/final-reading-flight-myth permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago That's interesting, thank you. I'm still not sure it would be the same for them level of tax increase public healthcare would require, but maybe you're right. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago That's interesting, thank you. I'm still not sure it would be the same for them level of tax increase public healthcare would require, but maybe you're right. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Depends exactly on what is taxed. Regardless, the tax increase would be so low that moving is almost certainly not paying for itself. The government could also just increase taxes by a flat amount rather than a flat rate. Point is, there's plenty of options that give zero reason to assume capital flight will happen. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) a flat amount rather than a flat rate So a regressive tax permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Yes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago I would prefer a progressive tax which would be easier to do on the national level. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) a flat amount rather than a flat rate So a regressive tax permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Yes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago I would prefer a progressive tax which would be easier to do on the national level. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Yes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago I would prefer a progressive tax which would be easier to do on the national level. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago I would prefer a progressive tax which would be easier to do on the national level. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) I said under current progressive tax models. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) It depends on the state. Massachusetts actually does have a flat income tax, so maybe it would be easier to do there. But even so, wealthy people might prefer to buy private plans, and see the tax as redundant. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) How so? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) I'm conceding that it might not always be the case. I don't have an answer to your question because I don't feel like doing the research and math to figure out what the top earners would pay in any given state under universal health insurance. It seems to me obvious that it would represent a large tax increase, and that that increase would disproportionately effect top earners. If you have reason to believe it would universally save people money, I'm all ears for a reason or argument. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml -2 points 2 years ago I never said it wouldn't be cheaper overall, I'm aware that's true. I'm saying for top earners, it won't. Insurance costs the same for everyone, taxes don't. The only way around that entirely is a regressive tax. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) I said under current progressive tax models. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) It depends on the state. Massachusetts actually does have a flat income tax, so maybe it would be easier to do there. But even so, wealthy people might prefer to buy private plans, and see the tax as redundant. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) How so? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) I'm conceding that it might not always be the case. I don't have an answer to your question because I don't feel like doing the research and math to figure out what the top earners would pay in any given state under universal health insurance. It seems to me obvious that it would represent a large tax increase, and that that increase would disproportionately effect top earners. If you have reason to believe it would universally save people money, I'm all ears for a reason or argument. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml -2 points 2 years ago I never said it wouldn't be cheaper overall, I'm aware that's true. I'm saying for top earners, it won't. Insurance costs the same for everyone, taxes don't. The only way around that entirely is a regressive tax. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) It depends on the state. Massachusetts actually does have a flat income tax, so maybe it would be easier to do there. But even so, wealthy people might prefer to buy private plans, and see the tax as redundant. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) How so? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) I'm conceding that it might not always be the case. I don't have an answer to your question because I don't feel like doing the research and math to figure out what the top earners would pay in any given state under universal health insurance. It seems to me obvious that it would represent a large tax increase, and that that increase would disproportionately effect top earners. If you have reason to believe it would universally save people money, I'm all ears for a reason or argument. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml -2 points 2 years ago I never said it wouldn't be cheaper overall, I'm aware that's true. I'm saying for top earners, it won't. Insurance costs the same for everyone, taxes don't. The only way around that entirely is a regressive tax. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) It depends on the state. Massachusetts actually does have a flat income tax, so maybe it would be easier to do there. But even so, wealthy people might prefer to buy private plans, and see the tax as redundant. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) How so? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) I'm conceding that it might not always be the case. I don't have an answer to your question because I don't feel like doing the research and math to figure out what the top earners would pay in any given state under universal health insurance. It seems to me obvious that it would represent a large tax increase, and that that increase would disproportionately effect top earners. If you have reason to believe it would universally save people money, I'm all ears for a reason or argument. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml -2 points 2 years ago I never said it wouldn't be cheaper overall, I'm aware that's true. I'm saying for top earners, it won't. Insurance costs the same for everyone, taxes don't. The only way around that entirely is a regressive tax. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) How so? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) I'm conceding that it might not always be the case. I don't have an answer to your question because I don't feel like doing the research and math to figure out what the top earners would pay in any given state under universal health insurance. It seems to me obvious that it would represent a large tax increase, and that that increase would disproportionately effect top earners. If you have reason to believe it would universally save people money, I'm all ears for a reason or argument. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml -2 points 2 years ago I never said it wouldn't be cheaper overall, I'm aware that's true. I'm saying for top earners, it won't. Insurance costs the same for everyone, taxes don't. The only way around that entirely is a regressive tax. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) How so? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) I'm conceding that it might not always be the case. I don't have an answer to your question because I don't feel like doing the research and math to figure out what the top earners would pay in any given state under universal health insurance. It seems to me obvious that it would represent a large tax increase, and that that increase would disproportionately effect top earners. If you have reason to believe it would universally save people money, I'm all ears for a reason or argument. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml -2 points 2 years ago I never said it wouldn't be cheaper overall, I'm aware that's true. I'm saying for top earners, it won't. Insurance costs the same for everyone, taxes don't. The only way around that entirely is a regressive tax. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) I'm conceding that it might not always be the case. I don't have an answer to your question because I don't feel like doing the research and math to figure out what the top earners would pay in any given state under universal health insurance. It seems to me obvious that it would represent a large tax increase, and that that increase would disproportionately effect top earners. If you have reason to believe it would universally save people money, I'm all ears for a reason or argument. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml -2 points 2 years ago I never said it wouldn't be cheaper overall, I'm aware that's true. I'm saying for top earners, it won't. Insurance costs the same for everyone, taxes don't. The only way around that entirely is a regressive tax. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Dragon@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) I'm conceding that it might not always be the case. I don't have an answer to your question because I don't feel like doing the research and math to figure out what the top earners would pay in any given state under universal health insurance. It seems to me obvious that it would represent a large tax increase, and that that increase would disproportionately effect top earners. If you have reason to believe it would universally save people money, I'm all ears for a reason or argument. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml -2 points 2 years ago I never said it wouldn't be cheaper overall, I'm aware that's true. I'm saying for top earners, it won't. Insurance costs the same for everyone, taxes don't. The only way around that entirely is a regressive tax. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml -2 points 2 years ago I never said it wouldn't be cheaper overall, I'm aware that's true. I'm saying for top earners, it won't. Insurance costs the same for everyone, taxes don't. The only way around that entirely is a regressive tax. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Dragon@lemmy.ml -2 points 2 years ago I never said it wouldn't be cheaper overall, I'm aware that's true. I'm saying for top earners, it won't. Insurance costs the same for everyone, taxes don't. The only way around that entirely is a regressive tax. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TheRagingGeek@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago Yeah we need to deflate the disproportionately high pricing of the health care caused by insurance as well, if we could get it at the national level we could eliminate a lot of the back office overhead, and then maybe negotiate a revisit of the master charge list so that Tylenol in hospital isn't something crazy like $250 dollars a dose. State by state this would probably be much more difficult. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Dozzi92@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago Yeah, Jersey is nicely blued, but beholden to big pharma, and I think messing with healthcare hits too close to home. Governor race is next year though and so hopefully this issue stays hot. permalink fedilink source parent