this post was submitted on 20 Dec 2024
113 points (100.0% liked)

chat

8242 readers
183 users here now

Chat is a text only community for casual conversation, please keep shitposting to the absolute minimum. This is intended to be a separate space from c/chapotraphouse or the daily megathread. Chat does this by being a long-form community where topics will remain from day to day unlike the megathread, and it is distinct from c/chapotraphouse in that we ask you to engage in this community in a genuine way. Please keep shitposting, bits, and irony to a minimum.

As with all communities posts need to abide by the code of conduct, additionally moderators will remove any posts or comments deemed to be inappropriate.

Thank you and happy chatting!

founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Like I won't say that absolutely everything about the USA was bad, necessarily, and I of course have my own biases at play here... But the point sparing the details is really just like, I've spent the past month thinking practically every day about how every single US-based communist really must be working in incredibly trying circumstances, if even just visiting had me feeling lethargic and kinda wanting to go home within a week. Now that I'm back home again, that time in the USA is already starting to feel like a strange dream again.

So, uhh, what are your secrets, basically? Like I'm sure that all the nonsense of the USA feels like less of a burden to put up with if you grew up with it and have spent little to no time in other parts of the world, but still. I honestly do not think I could live in the USA until it is decolonized, but when that happens, it wouldn't be called the USA anymore, anyways.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 day ago (4 children)

If I weren't so tired, I'd list every specific experience that I thought to jot down in my journal — there were many different things — but really it's those things you mentioned and more. I'll mention a few specific illustrative examples of things I noticed.


First Anecdote—

I was going to get food somewhere, and I saw a sign outside with a stern anti-loitering message. Now most people I'd reckon don't think twice about a sign like that, because these signs are so common that they just fade into the background. But I see that sign and I think about what its implications really are.

Because the unspoken meaning of "no loitering" is basically "fuck homeless people, and also, police can harass anyone who looks 'suspicious' if you catch my drift" — and homelessness is widespread in Seppoland among other reasons to make an example of people, showing everyone what will happen if people fight back, with a cruelty necessary to uphold bourgeois rule in the very heart of empire. Furthermore these types of "broad license to harass" laws have a long history of being used to facilitate the effective enslavement of Black and Indigenous people.

Los Angeles is incidentally a very good example of precisely this: the United States never signed any treaties with the Tongva people, and with the beginning of the Septic occupation of Tovaangar — the Tongva homeland — the native Tongva people were widely made homeless. Many Tongva were then arrested for "loitering", and made to do construction work as penal labor — and these Tongva were paid, of course, in alcohol, with public drinking also being illegal, only exacerbating the situation. So the Tongva were in other words forced out of their homes, and immediately forced to build new homes for their own "replacements".

The city built by these Tongva slaves would eventually become the world-famous seat of the Septic film industry, with its "thirty-mile zone" profiting from the ideal natural scenery and climate of Tovaangar and surrounding Native homelands, which I cannot emphasize enough were never legally ceded to Seppoland, because even the treaties that Seppoland did sign with native Californians were never ratified.

This Septic film industry, in turn, is a cornerstone of Seppoland's soft power worldwide, used to push the lines of the country's ruling class all over the world, sanitizing and glorifying the Septic military, encouraging immigration to the "land of opportunity", making "American" synonymous with "cool", and peddling all sorts of bourgeois ideology.

So in other words, I saw that anti-loitering sign in the Twin Cities, and I remembered all this history, and I thought about how this history is not only comparatively recent, but that its impact is ongoing. Then after I got back to where I was staying, and ate, I watched a movie with my relatives.

Guess where that movie was filmed!


Second Anecdote—

I was staying with an older relative, who is politically conservative, and so she would sometimes leave her TV on, playing Fox News. One day I overheard Fox News covering Edison in Lenapehoking banning the Septic flag from town meetings due to the flag's use as a "prop". And Fox News' infamous talking heads were all blab-blab-blabbing about how outraged they were that the national flag would be given a designation as pedestrian as "prop" — why, the flag is practically a holy relic, isn't it!

One of the talking heads said something to the effect of, "I'm sure the soldiers who risk their lives to protect this country's freedom, to protect that flag, would not approve of it being called a prop." — another talking head said something like, "I think any government official who would call the flag a prop should be removed from office, in fact anyone who calls the flag a prop should frankly be deported from this country."

Calling a military whose sole purpose is to terrorize the imperial periphery, "protecting the USA's freedom", is certainly bold to say, unless the real meaning of "the USA's freedom" is "the US bourgeoisie's freedom" — and the platitude about "freedom" being immediately followed by an open call to deport anyone who isn't deferential enough to a piece of cloth, is certainly ironic, that Seppoland's freedom includes the right to hoist the flag but not the right to call the flag whatever you want.

That the talking head's rhetoric is seen as acceptable enough to air on national TV in the middle of the day, and is nodded to by a wide section of Seppoland's public, indicates to me that Seppoland is a society constantly paranoid about its own collapse. "National defense" means keeping other countries down to Seppoland, and anything questioning the common wisdom is a dangerous foreign element that must be removed.

Threats of deportation are yet another cruel act used to uphold bourgeois rule, in a lot of countries including Seppoland. I have myself experienced someone saying I should be thrown out of Norway for not being anti-Putin enough, so I don't want to act like this is a phenomenon entirely unique to Seppoland. The talking head's call for deportation, though, is rooted in a deep xenophobia running through all of Septic society, and this xenophobia is again rooted in the settler-colonial nature of Seppoland: xenophobia is all a part of making sure that immigrants are aiming to move "up the ladder" towards the platonic ideal of whiteness, towards the maintenance of the settler-colony rather than opposition to it. A colony is at its core always unstable, after all. All that paranoia in Seppoland about threats both internal and external is a survival mechanism of a system with numbered days.

And flag worship would of course be a part of the aforementioned "platonic whiteness", it's practically a litmus test for settlerism: planting a flag in the ground is a common way to assert a territorial claim, so it's no wonder that a society built entirely on stolen land would see a need to fly its flag outside every home, hoist giant flags outside malls, pledge allegiance to flags in schools, symbolically claiming and reclaiming day in and day out all year round the land the country stole. You need to constantly be reminded that the United States of America is a real country with a legitimate claim to its land, that should continue to exist, that the "American experiment" ultimately amounts to something that makes all the cruelty worthwhile.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago

all great observations. the flag-worship-as-compensation is especially salient. it jumped a ton after 9/11.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago

unless the real meaning of "the USA's freedom" is "the US bourgeoisie's freedom astronaut-1

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago

Really good stuff, give me more please if you have it.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Genuine question from a european: What’s the “Seppoland” thing? Never seen it before.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Seppo from "septic tank" which rhymes with "Yank" as in Yankee, in other words Seppoland is "Yankee-land", i.e. the USA.

I was told that this term "Seppo" originated as a derogatory Australian term for US soldiers stationed there, and was from there expanded into a general term for "US-Americans". "Seppo" is today used in a number of different English dialects but remains most common in Australian English. I don't have any personal connections to Australia myself — my own first language is American English and I've lived in Europe my whole life — but I still try to refer to the USA as Seppoland if I feel like this wouldn't cause any confusion. There are a few reasons why I favor the name Seppoland when I can, the most important of which has to do with my views on American national identity.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago

That’s like chinese levels of complicated shitposting haha