this post was submitted on 18 Dec 2024
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A space for masculine folks to talk about living under patriarchy.

Detoxing masculinity since 1990!

You don’t get points for feminism, feminism is expected.

Guidelines:

  1. Questions over blame
  2. Humility over pride
  3. Wisdom over dogma
  4. Actions over image

Rules (expansions on the guidelines):

  1. Mistakes should be learning experiences when possible.
    • Do not attack comrades displaying vulnerability for what they acknowledge are mistakes.
    • If you see good-faith behavior that's toxic, do your best to explain why it's toxic.
    • If you don't have the energy to engage, report and move on.
    • This includes past mistakes. If you've overcome extreme reactionary behavior, we'd love to know how.
    • A widened range of acceptable discussion means a greater need for sensitivity and patience for your comrades.
    • Examples:
      • "This is reactionary. Here's why."
      • "I know that {reality}, but I feel like {toxicity}"
      • "I don't understand why this is reactionary, but it feels like it {spoilered details}"
  2. You are not entitled to the emotional labor of others.
    • Constantly info-dumping and letting us sort through your psyche is not healthy for any of us.
    • If you feel a criticism of you is unfair, do not lash out.
    • If you can't engage self-critically, delete your post.
    • If you don't know how to phrase why it's unfair, say so.
  3. No singular masculine ideal.
    • This includes promoting gender-neutral traits like "courage" or "integrity" as "manly".
    • Suggestions for an individual to replace a toxic ideal is fine.
    • Don't reinforce the idea the fulfillment requires masculinity.
    • This also includes tendency struggle-sessions.
  4. No lifestyle content.
    • Post the picture of your new grill in !food (feminine people like grills too smh my head).
    • Post the picture of the fish you caught in !sports (feminine people like fish too smdh my damn head).
    • At best, stuff like this is off-topic. At worst, it's reinforcing genders norms..
    • If you're not trying to be seen as masculine for your lifestyle content, it's irrelevant to this comm. If you are trying to be seen as masculine, let's have a discussion about why these things are seen as masculine.

Resources:

*The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love by Bell Hooks

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"The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love" by bell hooks BOOK CLUB - Chapters 6 and 7 Discussion (hexbear.net)
submitted 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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Hello comrades, it's time for our third discussion thread for The Will to Change, covering Chapters 6 (Work: What's Love Got To Do With It?) and 7 (Feminist Manhood). Thanks to everyone who participated the last few weeks, I’m looking forward to hearing everyone’s thoughts again. And if you’re just joining the book club this week, welcome!

Chapter 6 discusses the role of work under patriarchy and how capitalism forces men and women alike to not only work long hours to survive, but to prioritize supporting themselves and their families financially over any sort of healing and growing. Chapter 7 delves into how men can apply feminist thought practically to support the well-being of themselves and the people around them.

If you haven't read the book yet but would like to, its available free on the Internet Archive in text form, as well as an audiobook on Youtube with content warnings at the start of each chapter, courtesy of the Anarchist Audio Library, and as an audiobook on our very own TankieTube! (note: the YT version is missing the Preface but the Tankietube version has it)

As always let me know if you'd like to be added to the ping list!

Our next discussion will be on Chapters 8 (Popular Culture: Media Masculinity) and 9 (Healing Male Spirit), beginning on 12/25. That thread will likely stay up a little longer than usual as I'm sure many people will be busy around the end of the year and I want to give everyone the opportunity to share their thoughts.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

I really enjoyed Chapter 6 which I think is most accessible and likely the most persuasive for anyone who isn't sold on this feminism concept. I think it is more and more relevant every year. Especially with these quotes early in the chapter:

One of the antifeminist patriarchal sentiments that has gained ground in recent years is the notion that masses of men used to be content to slave away at meaningless labor to fulfill their role as providers and that it is feminist insistence on gender equality in the workforce that has created male discontent.

Of course they do not critique the economy that makes it necessary for all adults to work outside the home; instead they pretend that feminism keeps women in the workforce.

I see this everywhere especially with younger men. We all know the truth is that people are miserable because the nature of work makes is that way. Its so helpful that she discusses this early with survey data to back up this fact. Moreover it shows that its the system that now requires everyone to work in the household. If people really cared about "traditional family values" they would raise wages so one person regardless of gender could support a single household.

My other favorite portions is talking about free time, family time and work. I love how this chapter lays out why those who could work from home 5 days a week are loving it and why "capitalists" want to remove it. With work from home and longer / any paternity leave shows that men who start off with their young children find it really rewarding and will insist on keeping it. Which bell hooks predicts decades before we started see it. See quote below (emphasis mine):

It has been through assuming the role of participatory loving parents that individual men have dared to challenge sexist assumptions and do work in the home that also invites them to learn relational skills. They document the rightness of feminist theory that argues that if men participated equally in child rearing, they would, like their female counterparts, learn how to care for the needs of others, including emotional needs.*

This is definitely happening which is terrifying for those in power. bell hooks further talks about how the lack of free time is dangerous because it promotes thinking, growth and challenging assumptions. I love this quote of hers:

Unemployment feels so emotionally threatening because it means that there would be time to fill, and most men in patriarchal culture do not want time on their hands

I think during COVID with fewer distractions and a forced time in a house was so threatening. You can see the splitting with people either unlearning some societal expectations about what is needed and what is not with those who were terrified about this change. Everyone saw how society operates is based on choices and people either were terrified by it or rejoiced in their new freedom. I can see this chapter being everyone's favorite here.

P.s. the only way I could participate in this book club is because I work from home. No way I could find the time to have these discussions in an office. Not because I wouldn't have the time but because this would not be "professional". Since "professional" means the only growth is for your "career" meaning doubling down on the patriarchy.