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How tankies and MAGAts view the Ukraine war (lemmy.blahaj.zone)
submitted 2 years ago* by to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world
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I hate how “anti-war” has been hijacked by these people to mean, let imperialist countries invade whoever they want with no consequences. (in the case of tankies, any imperialist country that isn’t in NATO).

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[–] 40 points 2 years ago (20 children)

Tankies might as well be called CINOs — communists in name only. Their defining feature is reverence towards authoritarian leaders. They revere Putin and Xi as “strong” leaders and completely ignore how little their regimes have in common with the socialist workers paradise Marx envisioned.

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  • [–] 23 points 2 years ago (16 children)

    My favorite is when they argue that China has billionaires and private property and a stock market because Marx said you have to go through capitalism to get to communism. Which... doesn't somehow also apply to the West?

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  • [–] -4 points 2 years ago (12 children)

    What makes you say they don't think it applies to the West? I don't follow your logic there.

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  • [–] 13 points 2 years ago (11 children)

    Because if you tell them China is just as capitalist as the West, they tell you it absolutely isn't and is a communist country.

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  • [–] -2 points 2 years ago (9 children)

    I'd buy that line if China wasn't integrating those large businesses (albeit slowly) into the public sector, something the west is not doing, but rather moving to deregulate more and more (Thanks Trump! /s)

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago (8 children)

    And yet it's still not a communist country. I get that you want it to be a communist country, but it isn't.

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  • [–] -4 points 2 years ago (7 children)

    You won't see me argue that China is communist, it's socialist as it stands now with the stated goal of becoming communist

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago (6 children)

    Really? Socialist? Which workers control the means of production?

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  • [–] -3 points 2 years ago (5 children)

    In industries that have been pulled into the public fold, sure. I'm calling them socialist In the same vein that you might still call most western countries capitalist despite having market regulations and some companies that are workers co-ops or use other socially owned frameworks. As long as they're solidly on this trajectory it seems silly to me to label it otherwise at this point just as it would be silly to call the us socialist for having a few employee owned businesses

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  • [–] 7 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    Which industries are controlled by the workers? Name them please.

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  • [–] -4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children)

    I'll not directly list any because that would be a waste of both of our times (notably some directly listed in the forthcoming article), but here's a wikipedia article with some information about that. I'm picking wiki here because I have a feeling you won't immediately discard it as pro-china propaganda. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-owned_enterprises_of_China

    If the workers own the state and the state owns the corporations, what practical difference does it make? In a sense: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_socialism

    The logic here is the state apparently operates at the will of the people (high approval ratings and high participation) and is working to bring "common prosperity" by gaining more control over the privately owned economy and bringing io state (public) ownership

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    No, I will discard it as being false. I asked which industries were controlled by the workers. Those are controlled by the state. The state is not controlled by the workers, it is controlled by Xi Jinping's unelected autocratic regime.

    You are being very disingenuous by claiming socialism is when there are state-owned enterprises.

    Or are these also socialist countries? In which case, we go back to my original point.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_government-owned_companies_of_the_United_Arab_Emirates

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-owned_enterprises_of_South_Africa

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-owned_enterprises_of_the_United_States

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  • [–] -3 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I don't see how he's any more unelected than prime ministers who are voted on by their party. From my short wiki read it seems to work pretty similarly to that process

    Yes that's definitely exactly what I said thank you. /s

    I won't be engaging with you further, thanks.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago

    I don’t see how he’s any more unelected than prime ministers who are voted on by their party. From my short wiki read it seems to work pretty similarly to that process

    Then, again, we go back to my first point that China is just as 'communist' as all of those Western countries. I guess we're in agreement.

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