▲ 754 ▼ Two 26-Year-Olds: One Killed a Homeless Man, Another is Suspected of Killing a Healthcare CEO (zeteo.com) submitted 2 years ago by return2ozma@lemmy.world to c/aboringdystopia@lemmy.world 172 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[+] IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 325 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] obinice@lemmy.world 80 points 2 years ago (3 children) You reminded me of something I read from back around when that bloke got elected, regarding amongst other things, the decline in the rule of law mattering to society... "The greatness of Rome, brilliant with repeated marks of prosperity, has gradually faded... the ancient glory of military prowess and valour has almost passed away... by the growth of wealth and luxury. The Roman world is falling: yet we concern ourselves with trifles… We heap up riches that perish and bury our gold in the earth as if we were piling up treasures in a lifetime of prosperity. Rome was great and could tolerate its own vices as long as they were held in check by some degree of virtue; but when our hands ceased to uphold the laws, when avarice and luxury sapped the nation’s strength, the state itself lost control and went its way. The finest men were shut out from office by the lowest dregs of society, who, having won the favour of the mob by base means, ventured to grasp at the highest offices. The greater her glory, the more incredible it seems that she has been brought so low. Empires are mortal. Rome has perished. Though she was built upon such firm foundations, Rome has sunk by her own weight." - Ammianus Marcellinus, Eusebius Sophronius Hieronymus, Tacitus, Aurelius Ambrosius, Aurelius Augustinus Hipponensis. 56 - 430 AD. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] baltakatei@sopuli.xyz 19 points 2 years ago (1 child) Can you indicate which author is associated with which portion of your quoted text? I'm looking to verify the provenance of these statements. Thank you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] obinice@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago Alas no, I saw this a while back and saved it. I believe they're mostly a mix of direct quotes (or as much as one can be given they weren't speaking English), and a lot of summations from their published works. So rather than reading a whole book, you get a few sentences carrying their main points. At least that's what I recall :-) My suggestion would be to look in to the authors, find their relevant works and give them a read, that'll give you the same thoughts and opinions but with way more detail :-D permalink fedilink source parent [–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago Rome fell before he was born permalink fedilink source parent [–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yet the Roman Empire survived and thrived for about a millennium afterwards. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shezzagrad@lemmy.ml 12 points 2 years ago (2 children) Id barely call the byzantines the Romans. They were a greek led empire permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 years ago reaches for spatha permalink fedilink source parent [–] Shardikprime@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) Unfair, there is still actual debate amongst historians and scholars about when the Roman empire ended, and if ever, it fell. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shezzagrad@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Among which historians specifically? I'm unaware of any serious debate here other than propagandists using the name second Rome, third Rome, ceaser etc. sorry buddy Roman empire collapsed when the franks, Visigoths, ostrogoths and Huns toppled the west. Wanna know why it ended then? Byzantine had split long before into a separate entity to distance itself from Rome and when it collapsed it chugged along with it's greek orthodox ideals permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) That's ignorant of modern scholarship. Here are some serious historians you might want to look into: Peter Heather Anthony Kaldellis Averil Cameron Timothy Gregory John Haldon There are others, of course. And no. By the time the Western half collapsed, the East had not drifted apart. That started happening 2-3 centuries later, definitely after Justinian. And it was not even completed as a process until after the 4th crusade at least. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shezzagrad@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Honestly you are right as someone who started his love for history with the Romans, I didn't know this was a debate, so I did some research and to me personally the end of the Roman empire was 476ad with the last western Roman empire abdicating. Or perhaps the fall of Constantinople permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Roma Invicta, frater! It's a fascinating topic! Keep learning! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shezzagrad@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago It absolutely is. Tho to be honest it was my beginning foray into history since then, my new passion is bronze age middle eastern/Indus history. But of course the glory of Rome is unlike many others permalink fedilink source parent [+] sic_semper_tyrannis@lemmy.today 29 points 2 years ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 16 points 2 years ago (1 child) Agreed. The wealthy and powerful sadly have always and will always have a preferential justice system. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Deceptichum@quokk.au 31 points 2 years ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] pfr@lemmy.sdf.org 12 points 2 years ago Came here to say exactly this permalink fedilink source parent [–] DrDickHandler@lemmy.world 20 points 2 years ago / End Thread permalink fedilink source parent
[–] obinice@lemmy.world 80 points 2 years ago (3 children) You reminded me of something I read from back around when that bloke got elected, regarding amongst other things, the decline in the rule of law mattering to society... "The greatness of Rome, brilliant with repeated marks of prosperity, has gradually faded... the ancient glory of military prowess and valour has almost passed away... by the growth of wealth and luxury. The Roman world is falling: yet we concern ourselves with trifles… We heap up riches that perish and bury our gold in the earth as if we were piling up treasures in a lifetime of prosperity. Rome was great and could tolerate its own vices as long as they were held in check by some degree of virtue; but when our hands ceased to uphold the laws, when avarice and luxury sapped the nation’s strength, the state itself lost control and went its way. The finest men were shut out from office by the lowest dregs of society, who, having won the favour of the mob by base means, ventured to grasp at the highest offices. The greater her glory, the more incredible it seems that she has been brought so low. Empires are mortal. Rome has perished. Though she was built upon such firm foundations, Rome has sunk by her own weight." - Ammianus Marcellinus, Eusebius Sophronius Hieronymus, Tacitus, Aurelius Ambrosius, Aurelius Augustinus Hipponensis. 56 - 430 AD. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] baltakatei@sopuli.xyz 19 points 2 years ago (1 child) Can you indicate which author is associated with which portion of your quoted text? I'm looking to verify the provenance of these statements. Thank you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] obinice@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago Alas no, I saw this a while back and saved it. I believe they're mostly a mix of direct quotes (or as much as one can be given they weren't speaking English), and a lot of summations from their published works. So rather than reading a whole book, you get a few sentences carrying their main points. At least that's what I recall :-) My suggestion would be to look in to the authors, find their relevant works and give them a read, that'll give you the same thoughts and opinions but with way more detail :-D permalink fedilink source parent [–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago Rome fell before he was born permalink fedilink source parent [–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yet the Roman Empire survived and thrived for about a millennium afterwards. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shezzagrad@lemmy.ml 12 points 2 years ago (2 children) Id barely call the byzantines the Romans. They were a greek led empire permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 years ago reaches for spatha permalink fedilink source parent [–] Shardikprime@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) Unfair, there is still actual debate amongst historians and scholars about when the Roman empire ended, and if ever, it fell. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shezzagrad@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Among which historians specifically? I'm unaware of any serious debate here other than propagandists using the name second Rome, third Rome, ceaser etc. sorry buddy Roman empire collapsed when the franks, Visigoths, ostrogoths and Huns toppled the west. Wanna know why it ended then? Byzantine had split long before into a separate entity to distance itself from Rome and when it collapsed it chugged along with it's greek orthodox ideals permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) That's ignorant of modern scholarship. Here are some serious historians you might want to look into: Peter Heather Anthony Kaldellis Averil Cameron Timothy Gregory John Haldon There are others, of course. And no. By the time the Western half collapsed, the East had not drifted apart. That started happening 2-3 centuries later, definitely after Justinian. And it was not even completed as a process until after the 4th crusade at least. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shezzagrad@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Honestly you are right as someone who started his love for history with the Romans, I didn't know this was a debate, so I did some research and to me personally the end of the Roman empire was 476ad with the last western Roman empire abdicating. Or perhaps the fall of Constantinople permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Roma Invicta, frater! It's a fascinating topic! Keep learning! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shezzagrad@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago It absolutely is. Tho to be honest it was my beginning foray into history since then, my new passion is bronze age middle eastern/Indus history. But of course the glory of Rome is unlike many others permalink fedilink source parent
[–] baltakatei@sopuli.xyz 19 points 2 years ago (1 child) Can you indicate which author is associated with which portion of your quoted text? I'm looking to verify the provenance of these statements. Thank you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] obinice@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago Alas no, I saw this a while back and saved it. I believe they're mostly a mix of direct quotes (or as much as one can be given they weren't speaking English), and a lot of summations from their published works. So rather than reading a whole book, you get a few sentences carrying their main points. At least that's what I recall :-) My suggestion would be to look in to the authors, find their relevant works and give them a read, that'll give you the same thoughts and opinions but with way more detail :-D permalink fedilink source parent
[–] obinice@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago Alas no, I saw this a while back and saved it. I believe they're mostly a mix of direct quotes (or as much as one can be given they weren't speaking English), and a lot of summations from their published works. So rather than reading a whole book, you get a few sentences carrying their main points. At least that's what I recall :-) My suggestion would be to look in to the authors, find their relevant works and give them a read, that'll give you the same thoughts and opinions but with way more detail :-D permalink fedilink source parent
[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago Rome fell before he was born permalink fedilink source parent
[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yet the Roman Empire survived and thrived for about a millennium afterwards. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shezzagrad@lemmy.ml 12 points 2 years ago (2 children) Id barely call the byzantines the Romans. They were a greek led empire permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 years ago reaches for spatha permalink fedilink source parent [–] Shardikprime@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) Unfair, there is still actual debate amongst historians and scholars about when the Roman empire ended, and if ever, it fell. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shezzagrad@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Among which historians specifically? I'm unaware of any serious debate here other than propagandists using the name second Rome, third Rome, ceaser etc. sorry buddy Roman empire collapsed when the franks, Visigoths, ostrogoths and Huns toppled the west. Wanna know why it ended then? Byzantine had split long before into a separate entity to distance itself from Rome and when it collapsed it chugged along with it's greek orthodox ideals permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) That's ignorant of modern scholarship. Here are some serious historians you might want to look into: Peter Heather Anthony Kaldellis Averil Cameron Timothy Gregory John Haldon There are others, of course. And no. By the time the Western half collapsed, the East had not drifted apart. That started happening 2-3 centuries later, definitely after Justinian. And it was not even completed as a process until after the 4th crusade at least. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shezzagrad@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Honestly you are right as someone who started his love for history with the Romans, I didn't know this was a debate, so I did some research and to me personally the end of the Roman empire was 476ad with the last western Roman empire abdicating. Or perhaps the fall of Constantinople permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Roma Invicta, frater! It's a fascinating topic! Keep learning! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shezzagrad@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago It absolutely is. Tho to be honest it was my beginning foray into history since then, my new passion is bronze age middle eastern/Indus history. But of course the glory of Rome is unlike many others permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Shezzagrad@lemmy.ml 12 points 2 years ago (2 children) Id barely call the byzantines the Romans. They were a greek led empire permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 years ago reaches for spatha permalink fedilink source parent [–] Shardikprime@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) Unfair, there is still actual debate amongst historians and scholars about when the Roman empire ended, and if ever, it fell. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shezzagrad@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Among which historians specifically? I'm unaware of any serious debate here other than propagandists using the name second Rome, third Rome, ceaser etc. sorry buddy Roman empire collapsed when the franks, Visigoths, ostrogoths and Huns toppled the west. Wanna know why it ended then? Byzantine had split long before into a separate entity to distance itself from Rome and when it collapsed it chugged along with it's greek orthodox ideals permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) That's ignorant of modern scholarship. Here are some serious historians you might want to look into: Peter Heather Anthony Kaldellis Averil Cameron Timothy Gregory John Haldon There are others, of course. And no. By the time the Western half collapsed, the East had not drifted apart. That started happening 2-3 centuries later, definitely after Justinian. And it was not even completed as a process until after the 4th crusade at least. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shezzagrad@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Honestly you are right as someone who started his love for history with the Romans, I didn't know this was a debate, so I did some research and to me personally the end of the Roman empire was 476ad with the last western Roman empire abdicating. Or perhaps the fall of Constantinople permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Roma Invicta, frater! It's a fascinating topic! Keep learning! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shezzagrad@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago It absolutely is. Tho to be honest it was my beginning foray into history since then, my new passion is bronze age middle eastern/Indus history. But of course the glory of Rome is unlike many others permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Shardikprime@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) Unfair, there is still actual debate amongst historians and scholars about when the Roman empire ended, and if ever, it fell. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shezzagrad@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Among which historians specifically? I'm unaware of any serious debate here other than propagandists using the name second Rome, third Rome, ceaser etc. sorry buddy Roman empire collapsed when the franks, Visigoths, ostrogoths and Huns toppled the west. Wanna know why it ended then? Byzantine had split long before into a separate entity to distance itself from Rome and when it collapsed it chugged along with it's greek orthodox ideals permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) That's ignorant of modern scholarship. Here are some serious historians you might want to look into: Peter Heather Anthony Kaldellis Averil Cameron Timothy Gregory John Haldon There are others, of course. And no. By the time the Western half collapsed, the East had not drifted apart. That started happening 2-3 centuries later, definitely after Justinian. And it was not even completed as a process until after the 4th crusade at least. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shezzagrad@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Honestly you are right as someone who started his love for history with the Romans, I didn't know this was a debate, so I did some research and to me personally the end of the Roman empire was 476ad with the last western Roman empire abdicating. Or perhaps the fall of Constantinople permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Roma Invicta, frater! It's a fascinating topic! Keep learning! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shezzagrad@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago It absolutely is. Tho to be honest it was my beginning foray into history since then, my new passion is bronze age middle eastern/Indus history. But of course the glory of Rome is unlike many others permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Shezzagrad@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Among which historians specifically? I'm unaware of any serious debate here other than propagandists using the name second Rome, third Rome, ceaser etc. sorry buddy Roman empire collapsed when the franks, Visigoths, ostrogoths and Huns toppled the west. Wanna know why it ended then? Byzantine had split long before into a separate entity to distance itself from Rome and when it collapsed it chugged along with it's greek orthodox ideals permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) That's ignorant of modern scholarship. Here are some serious historians you might want to look into: Peter Heather Anthony Kaldellis Averil Cameron Timothy Gregory John Haldon There are others, of course. And no. By the time the Western half collapsed, the East had not drifted apart. That started happening 2-3 centuries later, definitely after Justinian. And it was not even completed as a process until after the 4th crusade at least. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shezzagrad@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Honestly you are right as someone who started his love for history with the Romans, I didn't know this was a debate, so I did some research and to me personally the end of the Roman empire was 476ad with the last western Roman empire abdicating. Or perhaps the fall of Constantinople permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Roma Invicta, frater! It's a fascinating topic! Keep learning! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shezzagrad@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago It absolutely is. Tho to be honest it was my beginning foray into history since then, my new passion is bronze age middle eastern/Indus history. But of course the glory of Rome is unlike many others permalink fedilink source parent
[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) That's ignorant of modern scholarship. Here are some serious historians you might want to look into: Peter Heather Anthony Kaldellis Averil Cameron Timothy Gregory John Haldon There are others, of course. And no. By the time the Western half collapsed, the East had not drifted apart. That started happening 2-3 centuries later, definitely after Justinian. And it was not even completed as a process until after the 4th crusade at least. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shezzagrad@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Honestly you are right as someone who started his love for history with the Romans, I didn't know this was a debate, so I did some research and to me personally the end of the Roman empire was 476ad with the last western Roman empire abdicating. Or perhaps the fall of Constantinople permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Roma Invicta, frater! It's a fascinating topic! Keep learning! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shezzagrad@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago It absolutely is. Tho to be honest it was my beginning foray into history since then, my new passion is bronze age middle eastern/Indus history. But of course the glory of Rome is unlike many others permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Shezzagrad@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Honestly you are right as someone who started his love for history with the Romans, I didn't know this was a debate, so I did some research and to me personally the end of the Roman empire was 476ad with the last western Roman empire abdicating. Or perhaps the fall of Constantinople permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Roma Invicta, frater! It's a fascinating topic! Keep learning! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shezzagrad@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago It absolutely is. Tho to be honest it was my beginning foray into history since then, my new passion is bronze age middle eastern/Indus history. But of course the glory of Rome is unlike many others permalink fedilink source parent
[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Roma Invicta, frater! It's a fascinating topic! Keep learning! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shezzagrad@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago It absolutely is. Tho to be honest it was my beginning foray into history since then, my new passion is bronze age middle eastern/Indus history. But of course the glory of Rome is unlike many others permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Shezzagrad@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago It absolutely is. Tho to be honest it was my beginning foray into history since then, my new passion is bronze age middle eastern/Indus history. But of course the glory of Rome is unlike many others permalink fedilink source parent
[+] sic_semper_tyrannis@lemmy.today 29 points 2 years ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 16 points 2 years ago (1 child) Agreed. The wealthy and powerful sadly have always and will always have a preferential justice system. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Deceptichum@quokk.au 31 points 2 years ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] pfr@lemmy.sdf.org 12 points 2 years ago Came here to say exactly this permalink fedilink source parent
[–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 16 points 2 years ago (1 child) Agreed. The wealthy and powerful sadly have always and will always have a preferential justice system. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Deceptichum@quokk.au 31 points 2 years ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] pfr@lemmy.sdf.org 12 points 2 years ago Came here to say exactly this permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Deceptichum@quokk.au 31 points 2 years ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] pfr@lemmy.sdf.org 12 points 2 years ago Came here to say exactly this permalink fedilink source parent
[–] pfr@lemmy.sdf.org 12 points 2 years ago Came here to say exactly this permalink fedilink source parent