102
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 27 Nov 2024
102 points (98.1% liked)
menby
8048 readers
1 users here now
A space for masculine folks to talk about living under patriarchy.
Detoxing masculinity since 1990!
You don’t get points for feminism, feminism is expected.
Guidelines:
- Questions over blame
- Humility over pride
- Wisdom over dogma
- Actions over image
Rules (expansions on the guidelines):
- Mistakes should be learning experiences when possible.
- Do not attack comrades displaying vulnerability for what they acknowledge are mistakes.
- If you see good-faith behavior that's toxic, do your best to explain why it's toxic.
- If you don't have the energy to engage, report and move on.
- This includes past mistakes. If you've overcome extreme reactionary behavior, we'd love to know how.
- A widened range of acceptable discussion means a greater need for sensitivity and patience for your comrades.
- Examples:
- "This is reactionary. Here's why."
- "I know that {reality}, but I feel like {toxicity}"
- "I don't understand why this is reactionary, but it feels like it {spoilered details}"
- You are not entitled to the emotional labor of others.
- Constantly info-dumping and letting us sort through your psyche is not healthy for any of us.
- If you feel a criticism of you is unfair, do not lash out.
- If you can't engage self-critically, delete your post.
- If you don't know how to phrase why it's unfair, say so.
- No singular masculine ideal.
- This includes promoting gender-neutral traits like "courage" or "integrity" as "manly".
- Suggestions for an individual to replace a toxic ideal is fine.
- Don't reinforce the idea the fulfillment requires masculinity.
- This also includes tendency struggle-sessions.
- No lifestyle content.
- Post the picture of your new grill in !food (feminine people like grills too smh my head).
- Post the picture of the fish you caught in !sports (feminine people like fish too smdh my damn head).
- At best, stuff like this is off-topic. At worst, it's reinforcing genders norms..
- If you're not trying to be seen as masculine for your lifestyle content, it's irrelevant to this comm. If you are trying to be seen as masculine, let's have a discussion about why these things are seen as masculine.
Resources:
*The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love by Bell Hooks
founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
I don't know what my malfunction is but reading this had reminded me of the deep lack of love I have in my life. I have geinune paternal love and fraternal love from my direct and extended family. I am deeply grateful and honored to have that. However, outside of the family bonds I don't think I have any real meaningful exchanges of love in my life.
I have friends but they are more like "katz I know" rather than "people I love and people I know love me as well". I haven't known the love of a woman ever I think in a romantic sense so I find reading a lot of this to be "abstract" in that I can't even conceptualize that. I gloss over mentions of being a partner/lover, not out of any sort disinterest but more so "it doesn't really apply to me" which fine, not even word is for every person at every time.
To be totally frank, it's really reminding me how isolated and alone I really am. Which is cool in the sense that it's worth highlighting these feelings that exist in me, and also that I too fall into the trap of "stoic masculinity™©®" in that I just thug it out. My life sucks, I'm not happy, I don't have love or really even access to it, but I gotta keep it pushin' or I will perish. Which sucks and this book is giving me a reexamination of those feelings that she directly mentions that men package up and push deep down within ourselves. So much of the stuff I felt/feel is not anything I can meaningfully share or express (or feel safe to do so) in the real world. It's really making see that I'm a really alienated from myself in like a bad way.
The part i find so interesting that as dudes we are taught both overtly, explicitly, and implicitly this sort of "stoic masculinity™©®". I think my Dad is a good guy, old-school but overall decent and upright. Never did he say "REAL MEN™©® don't cry" or anything like that. My uncles and older cousins were never on some "YOU GOTTA BE A REAL MAN™©®" shit either. However as I read this book I'm thinking that these messages exist in all sorts of seen and unseen ways in our childhoods and cultures. It's really fucked.
It's really just reminding me "Bro, you are deeply hurt and yearn for a thing you don't even know. Lmaooo this sucks dude, you are so fucked". I don't say that in jest at all. Just turning the pages (i got a copy from local library) I feel that sense of "oh shit, you're not not good my man, you not in a good place at all. You're not broken or whatever but you certainly wounded and you just have had the fortune and fortitude to keep it going. As you are is probably isn't how you ought to be"
It's an uncomfortable read for me for sure. Though it's uncomfortable I know it's a worthwhile read.