this post was submitted on 01 Nov 2024
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A Boring Dystopia

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When Israel re-arrested Palestinian men in the occupied West Bank town of Dura, the detainees faced familiar treatment.

They were blindfolded, handcuffed, insulted and kept in inhumane conditions. More unusual was that each man had a number written on his forehead.

Osama Shaheen, who was released in August after 10 months of administrative detention, told Middle East Eye that soldiers brutally stormed his house, smashing his furniture.

"The soldiers turned us from names into numbers, and every detainee had a number that they used to provoke him during his arrest and call him by number instead of name. To them, we are just numbers."

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 month ago (7 children)

The headline says "brands Palestinians". The article doesn't mention branding. They had numbers written on their foreheads. Most prisons identify prisoners by numbers. Probably not a great idea to just write it on their foreheads but if you have limited ways of marking prisoners it makes sense.

Israels soldiers are shit but how about we use accurate language to describe what they are doing. Lying helps no one.

[–] [email protected] 56 points 1 month ago

I agree with your take. Shitty headline. When I think of “branding” , I think of hot iron burnt into flesh.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 month ago

What they are doing is genocide and straight from the Nazi playbook

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 month ago (2 children)

i would strongly urge you to familiarise yourself with figures of speech lest you're -- you know -- branded as an ignorant person.

[–] [email protected] 39 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (4 children)

Maybe the website should learn not to use language that is ambiguous in order to push an agenda. Looking at these comments there are already a bunch of people who are assuming brand to mean scarification by burning since they evidently only read the headline.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

I think they're almost certainly deliberately using ambiguous language to push an agenda. (Either that or both the author and the editor are incompetent.) And I would add that the language isn't even actually ambiguous. It's simply deceptive. "Brand" in this context would be interpreted literally by a normal reader and claiming it's a metaphor is disingenuous.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Hmm

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2015/nov/04/yellow-star-houses-budapest-hungarian-jews-nazis-holocaust

Branded with a yellow star: the Jewish houses marked for death by the Nazis

Just as an aside, even the Nazis had the decency to not tattoo the numbers on people's foreheads.

Pretending there's no dehumanisation or othering going on here is disingenuous.

https://museeholocauste.ca/en/resources-training/the-process-of-othering/

What is Othering?

Othering is a process whereby a group of people is made to seem fundamentally different, even to the point of making that group seem less than human. This process can trigger instinctive emotional reactions towards members of that group. In many instances, othering has been used to degrade, isolate, and render possible the discrimination, abuse, or persecution of a group.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

A house can't literally be branded, so the use of "brand" in that context must be metaphorical. People, however, can and historically often have been branded quite literally.

As for othering: it is irrelevant to the point I was making, so your reference to it here is a good example of how people make a false and inflammatory statement, and then when challenged about it, those people retreat to a much weaker, uncontroversial claim. Meanwhile the public has seen the original, false, and inflammatory statement but not the challenge or the retreat.

No one would care if the headline said "Israelis see Palestinians as fundamentally different from themselves" or even "Israelis sometimes don't treat Palestinian prisoners with respect." However, what the headline does say is that Israelis physically mutilate Palestinian prisoners. Here in the comments you make a pitiful argument that the claim of physical mutilation is in fact just a metaphor, although even then you try to sneak in a comparison between Jews and Nazis. Jews aren't tattooing anything on anyone, but apparently they still have less decency than Nazis according to you.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Jews aren't tattooing anything on anyone, but apparently they still have less decency than Nazis according to you.

You're equating Israelis to all Jews. Not all Jews are Israeli. Zionist much?

You're making a pitiful argument yourself. You're genuinely, literally, explicitly claiming that the headline is "claiming Palestinians are being physically mutilated". I could give you a long lecture on why that sort of asinine prescriptive interpretation is literally linguistically incorrect, but you'd just ignore it, just like you're ignoring the genocide Israel is committing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_prescription

But since you bring up the mutilation of Palestinians: https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/6477/West-Bank:-Mutilation-of-Palestinian-dead-bodies-by-Israeli-soldiers-requires-international-investigation-and-accountability

But I guess mutilating dead bodies is just fine. Just like it's fine to massively dehumanise people by drawing a massive number on their forehead. Any pitiful reasoning as to why the number can't be on someone's arm, for instance? Nothing to do with constantly reminding the people who are being dehumanised that they're being dehumanised, surely. It's not like Israel dehumanises Palestinians on a systematic level, right?

https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/12/1145132

Huh, that's more than a year old.

UN rights chief warns of ‘dehumanization’ of Palestinians amid West Bank violence as Gaza crisis deepens

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/17/the-normalisation-of-dehumanisation-in-the-israel-palestine-conflict

"Othering is completely irrelevant here" sure man. I've been through military service in my country btw, and we actually got taught what things would be warcrimes.

https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/statement-icc-prosecutor-karim-aa-khan-kc-applications-arrest-warrants-situation-state

Benjamin Netanyahu, Yoav Gallant

On the basis of evidence collected and examined by my Office, I have reasonable grounds to believe that Benjamin NETANYAHU, the Prime Minister of Israel, and Yoav GALLANT, the Minister of Defence of Israel, bear criminal responsibility for the following war crimes and crimes against humanity committed on the territory of the State of Palestine (in the Gaza strip) from at least 8 October 2023:

Starvation of civilians as a method of warfare as a war crime contrary to article 8(2)(b)(xxv) of the Statute;

Wilfully causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or health contrary to article 8(2)(a)(iii), or cruel treatment as a war crime contrary to article 8(2)(c)(i);

Wilful killing contrary to article 8(2)(a)(i), or Murder as a war crime contrary to article 8(2)(c)(i);

Intentionally directing attacks against a civilian population as a war crime contrary to articles 8(2)(b)(i), or 8(2)(e)(i);

Extermination and/or murder contrary to articles 7(1)(b) and 7(1)(a), including in the context of deaths caused by starvation, as a crime against humanity;

Persecution as a crime against humanity contrary to article 7(1)(h);

Other inhumane acts as crimes against humanity contrary to article 7(1)(k).

My Office submits that the war crimes alleged in these applications were committed in the context of an international armed conflict between Israel and Palestine, and a non-international armed conflict between Israel and Hamas (together with other Palestinian Armed Groups) running in parallel. We submit that the crimes against humanity charged were committed as part of a widespread and systematic attack against the Palestinian civilian population pursuant to State policy. These crimes, in our assessment, continue to this day.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Why don't you stay on topic and instead retreat to ten different other points no one is discussing or disagreeing with?

Deceptive language is being used by both sides. What is 'from the river to the sea' as an example. It doesn't help the cause if you can't concede the most simple facts (ie yeah this article is using ambiguous language to create an inflammatory headline). There is plenty of factual horrible stuff being perpetuated by the IDF - we don't need to make stuff up.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

It's not deceptive in any way. You're trying to assert an insane prescriptive standard for journalists, something which is completely unrealistic. If we actually tried applying this asinine logic of yours to pretty much any other headline, you'd see how ridiculous it is.

And just like the other poster has repeatedly told you, this does conform to the definition of a brand. You just don't feel like accepting it has more definitions than a burning iron, because of course you won't, because then you'd have to accept this insane dehumanisation Israel is doing to Palestinians, something which you're literally incapable of.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/brand

: a mark made by burning with a hot iron to attest manufacture or quality or to designate ownership

(2): a printed mark made for similar purposes

No-one is making shit up, but you sure as shit are being apologetic about what Israel is doing. Almost as if you don't accept that Israel is committing crimes on humanity?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Who. In. The fuck. Did any apologia here? What a fucking imbecile thing to write to someone that stated clearly and emphatically that the IDF is committing plenty of heinous acts.

Hoooooly shit.

How insecure do you have to be to just pivot to name calling without engaging with what is being said. Are you a child?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 month ago

"Heinous acts" is a start. Would you say they constitute genocide and/or other crimes against humanity?

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 month ago

Yes, but I think it's also intentional to mislead for clicks.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago

This is still a heinous act of dehumanization,... When I hear of a human being marked as a "brand" I think of a hot iron. I opened the article fearing the worst. Thankfully this is not that.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

If we're comparing with established prison practice let's also mention how prisoners also get human rights, habeas corpus, due process, equal treatment and stuff like that. Israel has none of that for Palestinians.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

According to the article this is not standard practice at all. The number practice continued during their arrest while they were beaten and tortured

More unusual was that each man had a number written on his forehead.

"The soldiers turned us from names into numbers, and every detainee had a number that they used to provoke him during his arrest and call him by number instead of name. To them, we are just numbers."

According to the PCHR, most detainees are beaten during these campaigns, and the Israeli army is trying new steps to intimidate them.

"Usually, a Palestinian is arrested and transferred to a known interrogation centre where he is interrogated. But the Israeli soldiers have replaced that with these humiliating measures, and they say that they have the right to detain any person for six hours without reporting him as a detainee to the Israeli army," Abu Hawash said.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Here is an article about numbering of prisoners in the California penitentiary system. It's been a system to identify prisoners for more than 100 years. Numbers are used to dehumanize all prisoners. It isn't an israeli/palestinian thing.

I only have an issue with the use of "branding" in the headline. If you can't link to a source that doesn't use deceptive headlines then don't post anything. You can't really convert people in good faith to your cause if you're lying to them with ambiguous language.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

They do not write the numbers on their forehead from the pictures I see in that article

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

They wore clothing with numbers on it. The prisoners were numbered and only referred to by that number while they were in the system. Just because they had a number written on their forehead instead of on their clothing doesn't really change the fact that they were numbered.

The only reason your article is getting upvotes is because people assume the palestinians are being branded with numbers (since that's what the headline says). They aren't being branded. Numbers written on someone are not the same as numbers branded on someone.

Again I think the israelis are a bunch of cunts and are dehumanizing the palestinians but you shouldn't lie in a headline. That is unless you're trying to be deceptive...

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

This user made a great analogy https://lemmy.world/comment/13210775

But besides that, there is a different level of dehumanization when writing directly on people. Especially when combined with beatings and torture.

The parallels are eerily similar, which was likely what the author was trying to evoke as well.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago (2 children)

So once again you just ignore the "branding" issue. I'm blocking you since you obviously have some sort of agenda and don't engage in good faith. Good day.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago (6 children)

Once again you focus on irrelevant minutae to avoid acknowledging that it is a comparable dehumanization tactic.

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[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Wow, what strong resolve you have for your side.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

My side is proper use of language and not using rage bait or deception to try and get clicks.

I have no dog in the israeli/palestinian conflict other than saying the israelis should stop committing war crimes and end apartheid.

But keep making assumptions. It's a good look on all of you. /s

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Sure.

That's why you gleefully announced you were blocking a person to close in your echo chamber more to ignore reality and why you refuse to look up the definition of brand and use a specific version that you want so you can claim it as wrong?

1): a mark made by burning with a hot iron to attest manufacture or quality or to designate ownership (2): a printed mark made for similar purposes : trademark

Cause printed would cover using a marker or tattoo on someone's body. Literally.

Or are you just upset people are upset at this and want to excuse it so that people are less so? If you have no fight in this leave and don't respond to people here anymore. You are off topic and bad at vocabulary anyways and it's distracting.

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[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (3 children)

Brand

1): a mark made by burning with a hot iron to attest manufacture or quality or to designate ownership

(2): a printed mark made for similar purposes : 

It mentions a printed mark. Read a dictionary next time you are ~~board~~ bored and want to defend the IDF.

Edit: God I hate modern autocorrect and IDF bought people being wrong while pedantic

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

It's not a trademark and it's not a mark made with a hot iron, so atleast according to the definition that you tried to use as a gotcha, it's not a brand.

Edit: After I had commented, the person edited out part of the 2nd definition so that the definition would fit their narrative. What was edited out: " (2) : a printed mark made for similar purposes : trademark".

From Miriam Webster: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/brand

They're basically using the (edited) definition of trademark branding to claim that these written numbers are a branding.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Its an example of. It was tagged as see also. And it's literally says "printed" what the hell.

I'm sorry I left in the direct dictionary text so it can be nitpicked as to how writing numbers on people isn't "branding"

How is there this many people that can argue against a dictionary?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Read a dictionary next time you are board

So ironic.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago

Yeah that one is a bit funny. Autocorrect can be a bitch. Doesn't explain you demanding a different word because it has a definition you don't like and ignoring it.