this post was submitted on 28 Oct 2024
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Piracy: ꜱᴀɪʟ ᴛʜᴇ ʜɪɢʜ ꜱᴇᴀꜱ
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And here's that exact superiority complex on display for all to see.
Lets say you see a moral wrong that others ignore, often while admitting that they're wrong to do so, and you alone act against that moral wrong despite it being hard and being mocked for your decision. How else would you feel? If you felt that being vegan was morally equal then you wouldn't have become a vegan for ethical reasons in the first place. So by definition, you must believe yourself (in this specific area) morally superior, and based on that one data point, it's probably safe to generalize that you're morally superior to the majority of non-vegans, just like how you probably consider yourself morally superior to people who litter or hit their kids.
How so? I literally stated that they have the exact same capacity as me to understand why veganism is a moral obligation. Such an understanding isn't hard to grasp, and I'm no ascended, especially enlightened person for being vegan. If I believed myself to be, I'd have no reason to hold others to the same standard. The incentive lies in the fact that carnism comes with victims; veganism isn't about me.
Regardless, this is an ad hominem and, as I stated, a thought-terminating cliché. It's a loophole to avoid engaging with ideas via focusing on the people expressing such ideas instead. Do you have any actual insight regarding the assertions I'm making or is it just cope?
This is a "begging the question" logical fallacy
What thoughtful discussion arises from someone repeatedly telling you that they're morally superior to you for choosing one specific diet over another? You're projecting here.
I have no issues with someone being vegan, but I take issue with self-righteous people such as yourself who can't help but talk about how superior their choices are.
There is no functional difference between your original text and my bolded replacement. To be a carnist is to, through your actions, support animal torture.
Hmm. Claims to not support animal torture yet joins hexbear and tortures all of us mammals on Lemmy any time one of you "writes" a comment. I'm seeing a disconnect in your reasoning here...
This is such a shitty "joke". Fucking hell. I hope you experience even half of the suffering a dairy cow experiences during their life. You won't, because the world isn't fair, but if I could imprison you and exploit your reproductive system until you're too old and worn out to be worthwhile and then kill you, I would do so.
Carnists don't count
How is asserting "It doesn't seem morally superior to hold others to the exact same moral standard as me" circular reasoning? Explain in detail; don't just say it like it's obvious and a "no shit" kind of take.
You are disingenuously undermining what veganism is by phrasing it as a trivial dietary choice. And once again, this isn't about whether vegans are "morally superior" or not. You can engage in ideas without using such an ad hominem as a cushion for your own guilt, but you are still actually refusing to do so. There is no reason why veganism, as a subject, should get an automatic quick dismissal via accusations of a "superiority complex" than any other subject. For instance, I take it and hope that you wouldn't say "anti-racists think they're so superior to racists 🙄," but doing so holds the exact same amount of weight as what you're doing right now with veganism. You're using a thought-terminating cliché to degrade the person asserting an idea rather than discussing the idea itself.
There is a reason why I said "veganism isn't about me." You are committing victim erasure by glossing over the fact that I made very clear that veganism is a justice movement that takes a stand for victims. And once again, you are just repeating the same exact issue of ad hominem and a thought-terminating cliché by calling vegans "self-righteous" and disingenuously strawmanning them as people who just want to circlejerk about the "superiority of their choices" rather than engage in and advocate for a justice movement.
Your entire argument is based on the assumption that your morals are the "correct morals" while everyone else who doesn't align with you is incorrect. That's a textbook definition of this fallacy.
That's exactly what it is. Disagree? Explain in detail; don't just say it like it's obvious and a "no shit" kind of take.
Where has that happened here? I challenge you to quote the comment stating as much. Seems like you're strawmanning here.
"Veganism isn't about me, but if you criticize me personally, you're criticizing veganism!"
This is hilariously illogical. It reads like someone whose brain is short circuiting from all the cognitive dissonance.
No, "begging the question" refers to circular logic. What you're stating is actually called a belief in moral realism, which is a different subject altogether. How are you going to throw out an accusation of a fallacy so damn smugly and then proceed to say that I engaged in a textbook example of the fallacy when you clearly struggle to even know what said fallacy means?
Furthermore, if you're appealing to moral relativism, you could easily reductio this to some absurd conclusions, like saying "My personal morals justify SA, so stop thinking you're superior for opposing SA!"
That's not what veganism is. Veganism is a deontic stance against animal exploitation, and this is common knowledge for many people, even if not for an overwhelming majority of carnists. Not going to zoos, not wearing leather, boycotting the pet industry, and abstaining from riding horses have nothing to do with diet, but they are still aspects of a vegan lifestyle. Acknowledging these things, however, would come with a more explicitly ethical consideration, so you avoid such an acknowledgement because you're unable to narrow these things down to this trivial dietary choice you're framing veganism as.
None of your comments discuss veganism in the context of it being a philosophy and a principle, but every single one of your comments have tried to drive home this ad hominem.
Examples:
What is nuance? You are criticizing vegans for advocating for the victims of their movement, which is a criticism of veganism in and of itself, even if you do not realize this and do the pseudo-respectful, "I don't mind you being vegan as long as you don't push your lifestyle onto other people!" You clearly don't agree with veganism ethically because you support animal exploitation and slaughter, so my point is that, instead of actually trying to argue a case for why veganism is ethically incorrect, instead, you decided to just adhere to the classic ad hominem tactic that carnists abuse the shit out of all the time. Also, you have a very one-dimensional, myopic way of thinking. Even in cases where a justice movement isn't about the supporters of a movement itself, insulting the supporters of that movement still comes with the negative connotation of undermining the validity of the movement. For instance, if you insulted a male feminist, a cishet ally of the LGBTQ+ community, and a white advocate for racial justice for being "pushy" about their beliefs, you are giving away an indication that you disagree with the advocacy of their respective movements on some level.
This is hilariously ironic. It's starting to read like parody even!