this post was submitted on 14 Jun 2023
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Memes

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (8 children)

got nothing against vegans it's just when they try to force it into others

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

As a vegan myself, I completely agree! I won't tell others what to eat and they shouldn't tell me what to eat. If I were to ever get "preachy" it's purely about reducing impact on the factors mentioned in the meme and by no means forced... One less meal a week with meat in? Go you! Locally sourcing meat? Hell yeah, less environmental impact!

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

For the bit about local, it's worth noting here that the difference is substantially less than one might expect. Transport is a surprisingly small portion of emissions and environmental impact

Transport is a small contributor to emissions. For most food products, it accounts for less than 10%, and it’s much smaller for the largest GHG emitters. In beef from beef herds, it’s 0.5%.

Not just transport, but all processes in the supply chain after the food left the farm – processing, transport, retail and packaging – mostly account for a small share of emissions.

This data shows that this is the case when we look at individual food products. But studies also shows that this holds true for actual diets; here we show the results of a study which looked at the footprint of diets across the EU. Food transport was responsible for only 6% of emissions, whilst dairy, meat and eggs accounted for 83%

https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I always thought the party of sourcing from local wasn't transport but supporting your local economy and small producers, keeping the money within your city and raising buying power for its citizens.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

What do you mean by "forcing" veganism onto others?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Same energy as "I don't hate the gays I just wish they'd stop shoving it in my face"

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Yeah, they're always outside the Steakhouse picketing. Running at me constantly with a fork full of green vegetables.

THIS IS A REAL PROBLEM THAT I CONSTANTLY HAVE IN REAL LIFE.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

This is the sarcasm we deserve.

I've known plenty of vegans and not once have I seen them "try to force it into others"... Outside of internet rage baiting crazies.

..Now the religious on the other hand, I have first hand experience with.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You joke, but there have been cases of steakhouses and butcher shops having troubles with protestors. It's not an everyday thing, but we are talking about a small, crazy portion of an already fringe group.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So crazy to protest ppl profiting off the rape and murder of thousands of sentient beings

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

.....that is a profoundly stupid way to look at it, you cannot exist without hurting something or someone, your mere existence causes pain to some people, and they'd much rather you stop existing, are you going to oblige them too? To define pain and suffering as unacceptable in all forms is to deny reality.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago

Nice ableism. No one is forcing you to support the rape and murder of sentient beings so you can put their corpses in your mouth. You can choose not to do it, don't pretend your hands are tied

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago

I use arch btw

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Very few will force it on others, though. Anyway, I find it hilarious how people can get riled up about the idea of a person not eating meat or any animal products. I’ve seen it often that they take it personally for some reason and will “compensate by eating extra bacon/steak/chicken”. It’s bonkers.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

It's funny: the forum I help moderate has a strong contingent of zero-carb/carnivores, and their experience is the same, only in reverse. They get shamed for not eating plants. I guess the moral is that people will criticize us, no matter what we do.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Eh, I don't care what you eat. But I find very offensive, naive, and just plain wrong the idea that it's impossible to sustainably raise animals for meat, eggs, dairy, etc as many vegans will try to insist.

Does it cost more? Yes. Can we raise as many as we do today using conventional farming techniques? No. Will/should we all cut back on our meat, dairy, etc? Yes. But, then again being more mindful of what we all eat is going to be required regardless, if we're going to manage to feed everyone.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Claiming that something is on its whole sustainable is rather loosely defined (i.e what level of impact is considered sustainable and on what metrics), so let's look a little closer. What many are saying there is that process is still going to inherently be much more inefficient compared to growing plants directly for human consumption

It turns out to be the case that the worst-case production of any plants-based production comes out ahead compared to best-case production of meat, dairy, etc. on virtually all environmental metrics

If I source my beef or lamb from low-impact producers, could they have a lower footprint than plant-based alternatives? The evidence suggests, no: plant-based foods emit fewer greenhouse gases than meat and dairy, regardless of how they are produced.

[…]

Plant-based protein sources – tofu, beans, peas and nuts – have the lowest carbon footprint. This is certainly true when you compare average emissions. But it’s still true when you compare the extremes: there’s not much overlap in emissions between the worst producers of plant proteins, and the best producers of meat and dairy.

https://ourworldindata.org/less-meat-or-sustainable-meat

Plant-based foods have a significantly smaller footprint on the environment than animal-based foods. Even the least sustainable vegetables and cereals cause less environmental harm than the lowest impact meat and dairy products [9].

https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/14/8/1614/htm

Even true of synthetic fertilizer usage compared to the best case of animal manure

Thus, shifting from animal to plant sources of protein can substantially reduce fertilizer requirements, even with maximal use of animal manure

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0921344922006528

In terms of biodiversity

Livestock farmers often claim that their grazing systems “mimic nature”. If so, the mimicry is a crude caricature. A review of evidence from over 100 studies found that when livestock are removed from the land, the abundance and diversity of almost all groups of wild animals increases

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/aug/16/most-damaging-farm-products-organic-pasture-fed-beef-lamb

If we compare more typical production rather than best to worst, the differences are even more apparent

To produce 1 kg of protein from kidney beans required approximately eighteen times less land, ten times less water, nine times less fuel, twelve times less fertilizer and ten times less pesticide in comparison to producing 1 kg of protein from beef

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25374332/

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago

Like you force your lifestyle on animals, by exploiting and killing them?

[–] [email protected] -3 points 1 year ago

Stop forcing your views onto innocent animals first