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Washington Post losing its mind over the fact that Singapore is not as rabidly anti-China as the US wishes
(www.washingtonpost.com)
this post was submitted on 25 Jul 2023
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I wouldn’t say losing its mind. Definitely some click bait title there on your end. It just goes into how the Chinese ethnic population in Singapore, which is a city state in Malaysia, are aligning more with the Chinese Communist party. An example is not believing in human rights abuse against the Uyghurs in China. This divergence will lead to unrest ultimately, and will impact the successes of the city state. I debated even posting but most people won’t read the article and just go based on your title, which is inflammatory.
Jesus. How is any grown adult still believing in this ridiculous claptrap?
Am I out of the loop? I’ve definitely not kept up with the situation but I thought there was human abuse stuff happening with the Uyghurs in China?
You were in the wrong loop. It was a hoax. Fake news, propaganda, whatever you want to call it.
After the US tried to radicalise Uyghurs in Xingjiang, the Chinese government responded not with bullets or bombs like the US wanted, but with an education programme that has now ended. Everyone is prospering in Xinjiang. Multiple independent visits have taken place and nothing was ever found. The only witnesses all turned out to be CIA. Like this funny example.
Get better loops. You should start trusting the media waaay less, especially about geopolitics.
Whoa I definitely was out of the loop. Thanks for actually discussing with me and sharing some insight. You’re the only so far!
Sorry about that, we get a lot of people coming in here and acting in bad faith, not actually interesting in learning, but just telling us we are all evil bad guys for disagreeing with them. Xinjiang is usually a focal point of that, as that is the loudest (though far from the most well sourced) anti-China narrative right now. So we can be a bit aggressive when someone asks questions that sound very similar to someone just here to be annoying and obnoxious.
Thanks for not just dismissing everyone outright because some people were being rude!
No worries, I understand! People can be defensive. I just honestly don’t know that much, and appreciate a dialog.
Then you're welcome here! It might be a good idea to add a little statement like (I'm not trying to upset anyone, I honestly don't know and would like more information.) to comments prevent this sort of thing happening in the future.
Sounds like a plan!
With the influx of people to Lemmy instances from Reddit, existing members will tend to be a bit defensive when state department lines get regurgitated (even when the same start department has walked back on some of its claims). Even moreso when many of these new users come in to wreck, hurl insults and then leave lol.
Here's a few more summaries with linked sources if you're interested. The most recent extremist attacks were in 2014 where dozens of innocents were murdered. While they could be found with a quick search, they barely have any views as it undermines the whole narrative.
https://lemmygrad.ml/post/1028893
https://archive.md/sYD5q
Some of the reasons why the US intelligence agencies have so much interest in turning the region into an extremist hotbed are:
Looking on the map, the region is a critical part of the OBOR, which the "sea based powers" in the West want to destroy for their own business interests
Similar to Afghanistan (which is geographically close to both Russia and PRC), it would create an endless supply of extremists to create futher ethnic violence and destabilisation within the whole mainland
That’s crazy, ya all I know is what is broadcasted to me. The US does have a history of causing unrest in other countries for sure. I’m a new user as well but I won’t walk away from a discussion. That’s why I’m here, for a dialog with people, not just endless scrolling.
No problem, I find most people get very angry with me if you tell them this genocide never happened. It's a bit strange.
There's a lot more info here.
I can hardly believe that only 3 years ago enough redditors were able to see through the Xinjiang shit that most of the comments were ripping into Rushan Abbas. Did the feds really shape the narrative that fast?
I think what happened was that feds felt too powerful after the reception of their propaganda wave and in a foolhardy step thought that having a literal CIA employee doing public facing AMAs would not fire back.
They should have stuck to pseudo-academic reports by Zenz, UN reports with unverified and unnamed interviewees, armchair analysis of satellite images and so on where there is plausible deniability. But they got ahead of themselves.
"human abuse stuff" you sure sound like you know what you're talking about
Thanks for clearing that up. Super helpful.
I was hoping you would elaborate on wtf that means exactly, and what your source is
Source: news places /s
Let's play the game show:
📺📺📺📺📺📺📺📺📺📺📺📺📺
WHAT - IS - YOUR - SOURCE?
The family friendly game where you have to support your claims instead of spewing garbage.
If you can find a source for your claim that does not reference:
Then you win the vaunted prize of me leaving you the fuck alone!!!! 🙅♂️🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑
Careful now, the clock is ticking!
🕜🕡🕣🕣⏰⏲️⏰🕧⌚⏲️🕥🕥🕡🕥🕑🕒🕓🕡🕧🕣🕐⏱️🕒🕓🕐⌚🕧🕰️🕰️🕰️
the C^2^P abused those Uyghurs so much that their population grew
gENoCiDe
(2C)P*
The source is the article you posted lol Edit: not you, what OP posted. Shows you didn’t even read the article.
Bzzzzzttt
That's not a source!
You said:
The article OP posted is not a primary source backing your factual claim.
The second round starts... Now!
Careful, the clock's ticking! 🕧🕧🕰️⏱️😁🕓🕥🕰️🕓🕐🕥⏱️🕡
HANGMAN'S GAMBIT
I --de i- t-e f--k -p
Lol that took me too long
you failed the challenge, time for your punishment!!
CBT is back on the menu boys
Communist
Book
Torture
The quote is about a claim you made beyond the scope of the article lol. Shows you didn't even read the comment.
I mean, yeah you’re totally right. However, it is definitely off topic. I know I’m being down voted to oblivion. I did make the correlation of human rights violations to the Uyghurs, whom were not specifically listed. The article left it at just violations. Either way, it’s a very semantic argument. I was just pointing out that a large news publisher wasn’t “freaking out” and rather just reporting some drama happening on the other side of the globe. I did get lots of replies on an otherwise empty comment section, so at least there’s engagement. Which is why I’m here.
How is pointing out bias and the absurdity of trusting the U.S. over Muslim-majority countries off topic in a thread about anti-China dogma in the U.S.?
Malaysia has and will continue to be more Pro-China than Singapore ever will be you dumbass.
You don't even know what you are talking about LMAO.
In the arena of SEA politics, the most Western friendly countries are: Phillipines (neocolonial comprador puppet state of the US), Singapore (glorified tax haven for which International Capital uses as a node for value transfer, and to better control the geopolitically important Strait of Malacca) and Papua New Guinea (neocolonized by Australian companies).
Singapore isn't a "city-state" in Malaysia, it was booted out of Malaysia to fulfill the comprador Malay feudal classes interests here in Malaysia, that the British acquiesed because containing Communism was more important.
This division can still be seen as a modern-day example of a colonial scar, remaining unresolved because of past and present Western influence.
But surely and steadily this will be removed and our countries will be reunited. That is the logical conclusion of indigenous economic integration, as history has shown.
I know nothing about this subject. Is it sort of like what happened with Hong Kong and/or Macau?
Somewhat.
I think the key point you need to know is that most of the political parties in Singapore, and all the left-wing ones in Malaysia before independence and even after, wanted a unified country, and many in Malaysia even sought for a "Pan-Indonesianism" which would fit into the historical cultural realm of the Malay archipelago (the spoken lingua franca of the entire region prior to European influence).
Thank you!
If reunification has become less popular, is there a general cause of this that wouldn't require you writing out a treatise for the sake of an offhand question?
I tried to keep it short and I began to write an entire monograph lmao.
TLDR: It just isn’t as materially important.
People can easily travel between the two states, there’s iirc hundreds of thousands that pass through the immigration bridge weekly.
Families are not separated and both states maintain cordial relations.
Personally I would obviously like to see it happening, but when it isn’t necessary, you get limited by political bureaucracy than anything else.
Makes perfect sense, thank you. I would have had no problem with an explanation of any length (and the forum might be interested in you making a post on this topic at some point) but I respect your time and patience.
Yup - I also did a quick double check with the stats, its more like hundreds of thousands (400k) per day.
Apparently it is literally the busiest or one of the busiest land borders on Earth.
I have a lot of ideas on this topic regarding Southeast Asian history in general - but I always seemingly want to cover a certain book before I start it, and never get round to actually drafting/creating a post.
I come from a family of academics, and there's a word of advice that I remember hearing said to others since I was a kid "If you want to write a thesis, you will always feel that you have not done enough research. Eventually, you need to actually write despite that feeling." Perhaps you could include the books you haven't read as a little "further reading" section.
Post Independence from Britain Singapore wanted to federate with Malaysia but Malaysia kicked them out because they didn't want a city full of Chinese and also because they were afraid of Lee Kuan Yew.
Well you seem very well informed, can you explain to me the difference between a city state, and a nation? Is it size? Is it governmental structure? Is it historical?
Honestly I didn't care much about your use of the term "city-state", I don't know why I put it in quotes in the first place.
My main contention was you called it "in" Malaysia, when the whole point was Singapore was excluded from Malaysia purposefully. I apologise for my brash response - I was really annoyed at that, especially after reading the original article shared here.
However I can say that nation and state are not synonymous. Nation-state is specifically a European concept in which was then retroactively applied to non-European cultures. It still has it's uses especially in International Relations but we must be cognizant of the fact that what it entails isn't universal.
Nation is more ambiguous and more culturally specific, it could be on the basis of a shared linguistic, economic, religious, cultural, or ideological history. It could be all at once or just one.
In the context of Southeast Asia, what it means to be part of the same nation is typically evoked to be those who practice the similar cultural norms, had similar shared histories, spoken certain dialects and languages. So it may be more useful to think nation as "ethnicity" but even then I wouldn't say is entirely accurate. I will have to say that this understanding doesn't include any sort of "blood quantum" rules or anything to do with biological lineage. That was and will always be a specifically Euro-Amerikan tradition.
Many countries are not nation-states, which would include countries like Bolivia, Indonesia, Laos, Viet Nam, China, India and South Africa. Studying them would be a good choice in understanding the nuances of nation, state and nation-state. Concepts like Plurinational State and Civilizational State is of key importance.
Even technically the United Kingdom is not a nation-state, although that is contested.
They key thing that binds them all is that a multitude of different cultures and ethnicities are practiced within the same territory and doesn't rely on a dominant identity (race, ethnic group, religion) for "nation-building".
Others in this site may be able to provide a better response than I.
No that was a great response, thank you. So basically they are different countries. Is the popular thought for them to rejoin? Sorry if I’m assuming you know. Honestly SEA is my weakest point for understanding cultural norms.
Yup they are seperate entities/states.
I would say it fits into the overal popular imagination of the "shared cultural realm" or nation I talked about but in terms of politically, as in a political union of some kind, I would say that it is not feasible or expected in the short and medium term.
The steps are being laid down though, through ASEAN and infrastructural initiatives. Economically, and culturally we are very much intertwined.
And Singapore and Malaysia are really new states, less than 75 years old, so things may change quickly.
Also, Brunei could be absorbed into Malaysia if the Sultan ever decides to in the future as that's also part of both countries' constitution.