@mister_monster @Saki

>Use things incapable of complying with anything in the first place.

This is it.

@mister_monster @4rkal Agreed. Surprising for me, as well. I suppose for the git-stuff, the community is complacent with the fact that github still hasn't tried any shenanigans. Most of the issue tickets are opened there, and most of the code and protocol related discussions use github's infra. There is too much inertia to overcome to make the change from github to a git[dot]getmonero.org, for instance.

Regarding the forum: agreed. However, we still have monero.town that is positioned to become the forum-like discussion medium, which is independent of the reddit.

@HardenedSteel yeah.. basically proton is a honeypot:

>cannot use their tor hidden service for anonymous account creation

>cannot use the btc payment option during anonymous account creation

>no XMR payment option at all

I think Monero community can do better. Just create a version of cockli service that forces people to pay a buck a month in XMR. Promise to keep their emails encrypted in the server SSDs, or allow them to use POP to pull their emails to their local devices. etc. etc.

Someone can be the new lavabit...

@HardenedSteel this is a niche still awaiting for its entrepreneur.

Proton accepts btc (sigh (put +1 to the column that argues for them being a honeypot)). You might use trocador to exchange from btc to xmr and make your payment.

But, again, some sort of email service that takes XMR in exchange of service would be good. The operators of the email service can even use the XMR payment as a sort of counter-spam measure against bot accounts, and spam senders. The service can also use "Mullvad-style" random digits per the customer in order to track their XMR payments for the service, and demand no personally identifiable information, at all.

@simping4xmrchan fucking sucks. Outrageous to know there will be no push-back from the normies. We have a similar situation in Turkiye, too. One cannot travel without the all-seeing eye of the government digital surveillance systems...

Again, there won't be a push-back by the populace. They are too de-sensitized, made devoid of their agency, and turned into a cattle by the techno-capital's many forms of brainwashing entertainment systems.

Given this, what else legitimizes the fairy-tale of democracy, then? "Power to the people," but which of them are willing to use power?

Quite one-sided video. Many things you list as negatives in the Matrix's column are simply "not the whole truth". For example: "matrix requires captcha", "matrix requires email"---these are not true for all the existing homeservers. You may find a homeserver that's open for registration that doesn't force you to train google's machine vision AI nor give up an email.

Another "not the whole truth" is that "dendrite freezes and doesn't let you join big rooms". I have been using my own dendrite homeserver for the last 2 years, and while it may be true that I had some "freezes" when I tried to join some software support communities, in the end (after a few minutes) I always managed to join in, and never got locked out of the discussion.

Apart from all of that, xmpp's multi-device e2ee is also a mess. You make it sound like it is a piece of cake---it ain't.

@rar I pay for my own domain name + VPS for ~45 USD per quarter. (I know there are cheaper providers, but I am happy with my current one).

I don't use VPN, I use Tor while browsing and use I2P while torrenting---so I don't pay a dime to obfuscate my online trails.

I use a free tier from a "privacy-conscious" email provider, so I don't pay for that either. I don't self-host my email and I don't seek die-hard email privacy with mine, currently. At most, I PGP-encrypt some of them.

I self-host my own matrix server, which is an e2ee chatting service. So, that goes into my VPS subscription.

@nyakojiru Definitely Local Monero. It has mobile apps, and you don't need to link a bank account. You can totally stay anon on there.

SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL MONERO DEALER!

@ShadowRebel

>would force us to abandon IP address and DNS based systems such as federated ones.

Hey I hate the DNS like the next hacker. I think we can migrate to Tor HiddenServices and use Onion URLs for our mitra instances---if the need be. Afaik, mitra allows tor-only instances (they can federate to other onion instances, and/or to the clearnet ones over the tor exit nodes).

Definitely checkout mitra.social.

cc: @silverpill

@tusker

>there’s a need to stop putting the state on a pedestal

damn straight

@simping4xmrchan

>demonstrating that their funds (do not) originate from known (un-)lawful sources, without publicly revealing their entire transaction graph.

tbh, I am skeptical about how the current status quo of government apparatus defines the "lawful" and "unlawful." So, it is total obfuscation without compromises.

@SummerBreeze

>but the Element Matrix client is objectively slower,

there are many alternative matrix clients outside of the element. You can check out https://iamb.chat , which is a TUI matrix client written in rust.

>and it’s harder and more expensive to setup your own server.

I agree matrix homeservers use more CPU and RAM. However, there is an alternative matrix homeserver written in Go which is called Dendrite. Its system resource use manageable for a personal server.

There is also another client written in Rust, called conduit. I haven't used it, but I hear it is lightweight, too.

I don't agree that it is harder to setup a Dendrite homeserver. The internet is awash with such guides. Here's one: https://landchad.net/dendrite/

All in all, I don't hate xmpp. But matrix is "good enough". It has lots more users, many github repos that I am following has matrix rooms for help & discussion. Furthermore, working with matrix's end to end encryption is a lot more smoother than doing the same with xmpp.

Matrix is "good enough" in decentralization and privacy, and much more easier to use than xmpp.