MountingSuspicion

Not much to add here, as seemingly we agree on almost all real issues. Just wanted to acknowledge your response and wish you and yours well in all things.

Ashley Gavin has a stand up special where she does some 9/11 jokes and they're pretty good. I think she does a good job of it, but she wasn't an adult when it happened so I think that changes her perspective.

Thank you for not taking any offense to my frustrated tone, as it was indeed just that, frustration. Having questions and posting them here is completely understandable, and for what it's worth, I'd rather people ask than just never get an answer.

Though you are allowed to have your own opinion and come to your own conclusions, I think the fact you stated that you think using the apps was a bad idea even before now, and that doctors have been helping people long before apps, demonstrates that either I was not clear enough, or you were unable to appreciate the lived experience of people affected by their periods.

Doctors regularly misunderstand, misdiagnose, and outright ignore period related medical issues. I'm not sure where you live, but even in a country with the best healthcare in the world, it's literally impossible for doctors to provide the personalized information that apps can. I'm not saying that apps therefore must be used and are better than doctors, but I, a woman with periods, am telling you that my app has been more helpful than my doctor as far as managing my cycle goes. You don't have to believe me, or you can say that you don't think anything is worth the trade off in data for you as an individual, but people using these apps would obviously disagree. And not just because they don't know they're being tracked. We're all being tracked to a certain extent and we decide what we're willing to put up with in exchange. If you don't think you'd share your data for that convenience, fine, but people share data for other conveniences all the time. It's just extremely unfortunate that this data has now become so contentious.

Provided I'm not missing sarcasm here, that's nice of you to say, but honestly I certainly hope it wouldn't be relevant in a best of. Lemmy is full of really helpful people in niche communities sharing their expertise, so I'd hope explaining why people use apps would be seen as out of place in a best of lol. Thank you regardless.

I think it was probably a good move to stop using Samsung health. Hopefully you're getting the features you need elsewhere or are staying healthy without it.

I think you are seeing some of that energy as it relates to these apps, hence the OOP, but for practicality sake, and maybe out of naivety, most women are not/don't need to be as concerned as Jews in 1930s Germany. Most of the harm that will be done will be in removing access to future care and likely mainly to start in red states. If apps become a huge source of the issue, I think you'll see a larger shift, but I imagine most of those cases would not need app data as a main source of evidence. You'll see women dying of miscarriages more and more. And abortion will be more difficult to access, but I think there would have to be more cases where period app data was specifically used to convict before much changes. I think it's difficult to accurately convey how important accurate tracking/predictions can be for some people, and how unwilling they would be to give that up. Especially if they are not in a situation where they are likely to get pregnant. The difference between telling your doctor your period is regular vs using an app is that your doctor is just not capable of giving up to the minute personalized information the way an app can. If people's doctors were personally knocking on their door reminding them to take their medication twice a day and then giving them reminders that Wednesdays their symptoms are worse so maybe don't plan a full body gym workout, they'd probably be less likely to withhold the information from their doctor, so I don't really see the two as being directly comparable. Though, I generally agree with the sentiment that it's bad idea to trust anyone with your data, especially health data or data that can be used to support a criminal case against you.

Appreciate the reply. I guess I see how conceptually that makes sense, but in practice I don't see it helping someone actually accused of anything. If a woman in a red state is brought up on charges and her app data backs that up and the excuse given is "I was lying when I added that I was pregnant" I don't see that really making a difference. I guess it technically makes it more plausible, but I'm not sure it's moving the needle as much as would be needed in that case.

If my doc asked me what my diet was like I would try to give accurate info but if I needed to input my latest meal every time I sent a text, my phone would think I only ate ice cream. I guess I struggle to think of an app where I would give accurate data if given the option so I just assumed people would lie if asked honestly for it. I still am not sure most apps would do better if they were more transparent, but that probably speaks more to the scamminess and predatory nature of apps than anything else. There would be more paid only apps for sure.

I think people mistakenly believe it will make it harder to identify/charge women who have miscarriages/abortions. Your comment is 100% accurate though and although it's nice to see men expressing what they view as solidarity by downloading these apps, ultimately it will have no effect and just mess with data being used for public good. Really wish whichever CEO started this trend to get more downloads for their app gets found out, because I can't imagine who else would suggest people download an app thats main claim to fame is "respects privacy so little it can send you to jail" lol.

Legit only comment so far to not just say "PAPER EXISTS1!1!1!1!" So props for that.

Can I ask how polluting the data will help? Most apps that don't care about privacy can probably identify people with zero issues. I bet people are giving these apps location data etc.

I don't know what you mean by good data comes with proper consent. Like, ideally all data was offered with proper consent, but how does that make data better or worse? If anything, data given without consent is likely to be more wholistic/unedited since they were not given time to redact/remove info. If someone stole my phone and took all my data, they would have "better data" than had I been informed this would happen and given time to wipe my phone.

Most data already provided won't be useful if they stop providing the data. Generally the concern is for miscarriages/abortions, so just change the data to indicate you were having a regular period and then request a data deletion/account close/stop using the app is actually pretty much as good as it's gonna get.

Hi! Lots of people in this comment section who clearly don't have periods, but yea they do offer something more. That's why they're used. It really feels like a bunch of presumably men are here in the comments to remind women that paper exists? Yea, we know. Other than these all being easily searchable questions, allow me to say we use them for many reasons including: Convenience - you almost always have your phone on hand. Do you really want to keep a dedicated period journal on your person at all times? Predictions - despite what you may believe, periods are not all regular. Some can skip months at a time. Most apps have a bunch of data sets they use to predict things even if your data isn't complete Integrations - does my journal automatically cross reference my symptoms and alert me that it noticed that eating apples makes my headaches worse? No, and the level of analysis being done would need both an inhuman amount of time and resources to do by hand

Women are not "listening to an app for medical advice" so much as using apps predictive algorithm. The app has access to much more data than we do individually and it can be extremely helpful for women with irregular or extreme periods.

Is it great opsec? No. Sometimes things trump (lol) opsec. I still will advise against anyone (man or woman) downloading and using these apps if they have alternatives. The apple health app seems like a privacy focused one, but I can't stress enough how none of that matters anyway. The courts and public opinion will be stacked against women in these positions, so any app data that can be used will be, and any lack of app data will just be used to make the case anyway. Keep as much data as you can as private as you can, regardless. People adding false data to the does nothing.

I don't know if you're someone who's not had to deal with menstrual cycles, but that's not really helpful advice. Apps provide a lot of useful information and often integrate with other health data to offer better predictions and general insights. Many cycles are not "oh, it's the 15th, here we go". Many can be affected or predicted by mood/diet/symptoms. That's a lot for a person to keep track of. My app will sometimes predict up to a 3 day shift and be completely accurate. I have looked at the graphs and sometimes you can point to a specific symptom and say, oh that must be what it used for that prediction, but sometimes you can't. Get stressed every year around the holidays to the point where it changes your cycle? Your app will remember that. One less thing for your stressed mind to worry about. Additionally, even if they were super regular to the day, having an app to send a reminder, "hey! Get ready tomorrow" can be helpful to make sure you have any supplies you may need.

Also, we use apps for things we don't need to all the time. And generally, it's for the same reason: apps are easier and more accessible. Since you mentioned a journal, there are plenty of apps out there that replace journals themselves. They are used for several reasons, but one would imagine using an app is easier because it's not an extra item you have to have on you and can potentially lose or forget to bring, it's always on you so the resistance barrier is smaller, it might even have search functionality.

Do I think people should be randomly downloading these apps? No, it really doesn't do anything at all. But blaming people for using conveniences because the government is trying to take away their rights is really missing the mark. It might be good opsec, but it's dismissive at the least and not really solving the actual problem.

Since the election I've written comments the length of essays attempting to explain what you just put so succinctly. "She was a worse candidate because she lost the election to him, which is the one thing you need to do" 100% this.

For what it's worth, I do try to make the distinction between her and her campaign. She might have been the winning candidate had her campaign made different decisions, but at the end of the day, she's responsible for her campaign. They can't force her to say anything she doesn't want to.

I think there's a lot of people talking past each other because they don't agree on what the purpose of being a candidate is. We might think it's getting elected, others might think it's being the best representation of the party. Obviously, she wasn't option 1, but some people may think she was better because they are libs who agree with her ideologically and are somehow still under the delusion that Rs represent state rights, "godliness", and fiscal responsibility. They see Trump and think "how can people say he's a better representative of Rs than Kamala is of Ds" and the answer is that they have no idea what Rs want and are incapable of recognizing the broad spectrum of people that normally vote D. I hope people can rid themselves of that kind of thinking because it's obviously not serving them or the party. Either recognize that candidates need to be ELECTED to mean anything, or be prepared to be in this same position for the foreseeable future.