CatratchoPalestino

thats funny because my grandma loves taiwan for the exact same reason. she is also always talking about how great the united fruit company is which is a hilariously out-of-touch opinion

even if that specific phrase post-dates the point where the modern conception of the west occurs, which variously is being said to me to be either the 1890s or the 1850s which would be after your earliest sighting in english texts, it doesn't discount other terminologies that would be showing up in Latin either during the late roman, medievial, or early modern periods which are conceivable predecessors to the modern conception of the west. another example being Imperium Romanum Occidentale or Hesperium Imperium which as far as I know are both attestable to the medieval period and the added benefit of Hesperium itself deriving from the greek word for western lands and help showcase the internal division between the eastern greek speaking portion of the roman empire and the western latin speaking portion.

I would say those who aren't so belligerent as to call me a white supremacist but merely think I am wrong in believing honduras to be western still operate from a very eurocentric and could be described as chauvinistic view and should, as you have done, talk to a latin american and try to understand their point of view instead of considering the concept a complete mockery

can you really say "don't shoot the messenger" when the messenger doubles down on their, as you say yourself, rhetoric viewed as racist in latin american circles, call you a nazi pick-me, ban you for having internalized white supremacy, and accuse you of being a comprador? "why are you obsessed with race?" is a fairly normal thing to say to someone you view as acting considerably racist but perhaps unknowingly

I dunno if you assume I'm white and have farm slaves but I'm not white and have no farm slaves. I also have no solidarity with zionist settlers, or vice-versa, seeing as I'm palestinian

Constitution literally written by Americans during the occupation

Colombia's constitution was written directly based on the american one which is why Colombia has a bill of rights, a president, and is a republic while japan's constitution gives them no bill of rights, a prime minister, and a monarchy. just because americans primarily wrote their constitution does not mean they're more similar to america than Columbia is. furthermore, japan is a 1 or 1.5 party state where the leading party, the liberal democratic party, has maintained power for 64 of the last 68 years while Colombia is a multiparty country where the ruling party is always changing. even furthermore Japanese do not consider themselves western and still have a vastly different culture to any other western country while Colombians do consider themselves western and have very comparable culture to other western countries

the thread was deleted so I'm unsure if you can link, how you'd do so, nor how to do so without making things substantially longer. I don't really care if each individual is chauvinistic just that the origin of their ideas entirely fall in line with antiquated chauvinistic racial theories and could be said to at least be partially derived from them

you can't say the west is core while parts of the west are not core and parts of the core are not the west. clearly they're describing different things and it don't map 1 to 1

you said

Claiming anything to be simply Western wasn't a thing until the last few decades of the 19th century

to which you then later to backtrack and say

I said it wasn't used in the sense I'm talking about

which are two vastly different assertions and its quite disingenuous to pretend that you've been clear and consistent.

now your claim that due to cultural hegemony of capitalism, used in a completely different way to how gramsci conceptualized his theory but whatever, that spanish intellectuals and thereafter latin american ones were forced to adopt a nordicist model of western civilization by the british or whoever (but I guess the dutch or the french or the americans weren't forced to adopt it since they had capitalism unlike the spanish so they're intellectually equals) is false. the spanish and latin americans have never had a nordicist conception of western civilization and their conception stems from earlier concepts of The West, Christendom, and Europe. I'd also be curious to know if your idea of cultural hegemony of capitalism means that the italians didn't invent fascism themselves but instead just imported it from capitalist countries or if hegel and nietzsche didn't create their theories of german philosophy but instead imported it vis-a-vis capitalism to prussia. all I can say is your assertions that everyone else must be following your definition of western, or a definition which ultimately derives from yours, is americentric as I've said before

you misunderstand, latinos aren’t west aspiring and don’t care if other countries consider them western. latinos fully believe themselves to have been western for quite some time and will continue believing. if you want to assume that because latinos self-identify as western it makes them compradors that are selling out their countries that’s on you

because their question is poorly conceived and conflates a country being able to speak english with being an english native speaking country. there’s no movement in kenya to force people to speak english at home which is why 97% of kenyans do not speak english at home. if english isn’t their native language how can you, me, or they begin believing themselves western. if you went to go learn chinese I doubt you’d start believing you’re eastern. so, most of these gotcha countries he brings up aren’t close to self-identifying as western

and I'd say discontinuing it is a fools errand and would lessen our ability to describe very real phenomenon and cultural forces. how else might I describe the process by which my country, a third world one not part of the imperial core people tell me about, forces its native population to adopt spanish, adopt market forces, adopt wage labour, adopt cultural attitudes and self identification, etc

now you're just jumbling terms around. you said nothing was claimed to be western until the last few decades of the 19th century and when I point to an example that counters this you say its fake and double down. just because the modern definition of western civilization, western culture, and westernness didn't exist until recently does not mean that the concept is not coming from somewhere and lacks an older origin that its pulling from.