this post was submitted on 21 Feb 2024
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I want to donate to a linux phone. I believe in linux and I want a linux phone. Maybe we can use one in very few years as a normal daily driver. It's getting closer and closer every month.

I want to donate that we get there sooner. But which project? I'm following postmarket but I'm not sure if they are the most promising. What's your stance on this? To which project would you give your money to accellerate it?

Edit: I don't want to buy a phone. I want to support the phone os devs. Sorry for the bad wording.

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[–] [email protected] 93 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (3 children)

None. The sad, infuriating truth is that the makers and devs are a lot like this comments section: focusing on how good of a computer it is (or what apps it has).

You do a little digging and beneath all the hype there is a line buried in every review, so as not to raise suspicions, that says something like "now the call quality isn't perfect, but..." and what they mean is "it will sound like your friends are playing a full concert on a kazoo trying to talk to you."

Time and time again. Every linux-based, privacy-respecting, freedom-loving phone team out there seems to have conveniently neglected to make the phone good at being a phone.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Anecdotally, I have been using my L5 for almost a year now and haven't had complaints of call audio quality once.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 8 months ago

What is a review if not just an anecdote from someone who got paid to write it.

It's good to know, as the Librem 5 was one of the ones I'd seen the aforementioned practice of burying the lede in reviews of.

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[–] [email protected] 76 points 8 months ago (2 children)

In my opinion postmarketOS is the most promising mobile Linux OS now. But the phones? Only OnePlus 6 is good. PinePhone is a project to look at as well but the hardware is not as good from the regular user's perspective

[–] [email protected] 37 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Pine64 has also had terrible communication for a while now and their site has had technical issues for a month. They have not filled me with confidence as of late.

postmarketOS is great though.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 8 months ago

Does anyone know what's going on?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Well, I can at least say that any of my recent orders promptly arrived in perfect working condition, even though the communication is absolutely very lacking.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 8 months ago (4 children)

I think the Fairphone 4 is also worth checking out. It works great with Ubuntu Touch, SailfishOS seems to be doing well on the device, and there's developments towards PostmarketOS. :)

[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Fairphone looks really cool, but I feel like too big for my weak little hands

I'd probably just refurb an old old Android phone. Would love to buy hardware that is more ethically sourced though

[–] [email protected] 19 points 8 months ago

In the end, nothing is better than second hand!

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[–] [email protected] 47 points 8 months ago (25 children)

Tbh GrapheneOS.

Android is Linux.

And unlike desktop Linux it was able to spread secure and private standards

  • every app is sandboxed, not some opt-in like Flatpak
  • apps start with no permissions (or at least very little), everything is opt-in
  • it is like 99% unbreaking, immutable, it just always works while my desktop Linux broke all the time
  • there is a webview, which can be hardened. Not Electron, which is insecure and bloated
  • energy saving etc work like a charm. 1% battery loss over an entire night!
  • hardware security with trusted element is decades ahead of desktop Linux (Ubuntu is just now getting TPM encryption support)
  • it is a unified platform, with tons of apps, many of them essential (as the platform is so secure), like 2FA, Banking, public services etc. you can have a full FOSS phone though

I am sure excited for other operating systems but they are just toys. GrapheneOS does amazing work that is a 100% alternative today, for real phones with normal prices, good performance and outstanding security.

[–] [email protected] 39 points 8 months ago (6 children)

When i think of Android i don't think of it as part of the gnu/linux ecosystem, but a heavily modified linux kernel turned against the user.

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Being pixel only makes me cry

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago

Me too man, me too

[–] [email protected] 24 points 8 months ago (6 children)

Android is Linux.

It runs Linux but it isn't a "Linux phone" in the sense used here.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (9 children)

how are you only getting 1% battery drain overnight? my pixel 7 w grapheneos drains 10% overnight and battery saver makes it worse somehow

I would like to know your secrets

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 8 months ago (4 children)

The main problem is political not technical. The market had been allowed to become a duopoly and too many critical things now need an app on an Android or Apple phone. The worse I know is banks needing an app for authentication for their online banking. No separate security device anymore, those are ewaste apparently.

Public EV chargers where you can only control them from an app.

Riding book at theme parks. The cases are growing. Even the app is just wrapper of hidden web page!

Frankly I think regulation is required to get competition in the market. Not the only tech one either. Why is it so hard for law makers to see monopoly in tech?

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[–] [email protected] 30 points 8 months ago (5 children)

AOSP. Sad but true.

When first pinephone came out I really believed it's heading somewhere. It thought that it will be kind of like raspberry Pi (fun, cheap platform to play with) and that we'll quickly see copycats and it will slowly grow the way Linux on desktop did. AFAIK nothing like this happened. You still can't get a phone with decent Linux support which for me shows that we're stuck with android. I think most people that would help Linux phone happen are simply satisfied with LineageOS so there's no incentive to put as much effort into it as it requires.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 8 months ago (12 children)

AOSP is dying as Google is killing off all the apps in favor of proprietary Google ones.

Lineage os is slowly becoming its own thing as they are maintaining basically all of the system apps at this point.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 8 months ago (4 children)

I 100% agree.

Love it or hate it, Android is extremly fast, polished, stable and easy to use, not to mention it has gigantic library apps that are built to work perfectly with a touchscreen.

I honestly don't really get what there is to gain by using "Desktop Linux". I mean sure some proper Programs offer way more features than Apps but using them on a 6.5" Touchscreen sounds like pain.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I honestly don’t really get what there is to gain by using “Desktop Linux”.

More freedom I guess. I remember my n900 and how fun it was to just ssh into it and dig in my home directory, install apps with packet manger, edit config files with vi and so on. It really felt like having small Linux machine in my pocket. With Android everything is definitely more locked up but then again, I'm not sure what would I do if it was more open. Writing apps for Android is easier than for desktop (or just as easy), there are no more hardware keyboard phones so using terminal on them is terrible anyway and phones just work anyway so there's no need to mess with the configuration. Personally I mostly gave up on the 'Linux phone' idea and if I need any new features I will simply write cross platform app that runs on Android (for example with tauri).

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (5 children)

The benefits are there, some of ideas out of my head:

Better networking for administrator, access to /etc/hosts file, not being tied to a single VPN slot.

Using old mobile phone as a simple server, having access to firewall tools and normal remote control.

Installing simplier graphical interface for eldery people.

Lifetime updates for many system components that are not device specific.

Simple backups and cloning with standard tools like rsync or borgbackup instead of Google Drive. Also backing up whole system.

Everyone can add a feature, you can make a difference, no need to mess with Google's Android developing pipeline.

Making native apps for mobile and desktop at the same time, no need for bloated web-like abstraction layers.

Apps made in Python, C, Rust... No need to fit into Android SDK. And no forcing Android SDK and Android Studio!

Customizations of the interface look via CSS files (Phosh have it to some sort).

Someone give more ideas?

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago (7 children)

An Android phone isn't what's referred to when people say "Linux phone". What they're referring to is a phone running GNU/Linux, typically running one of the GNU/Linux phone shells/desktop environments.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 8 months ago (3 children)

There is a commercial phone linux: SailfishOS. IMO also the most polished one.

If those fuckers at Microsoft hadn't intervened with Nokia, we might have these things on much more devices. Meego was so promising 😔

[–] [email protected] 13 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Maemo on Nokia N900 was awesome. But even before Microsoft Nokia and Intel decided to rewrite a perfectly working phone OS from scratch and stopped development for years while trying to build Meego. At the time android didn't have multi-tasking, but on Maemo you could play a video on vlc on the background, and it kept playing while switching windows, inside the list of little windows. It used qt for ui and you could even write native looking apps in python. It had full access to the camera api, people were writing crazy scriptable camera apps for the thing, such as the frankencamera. Why would you throw away a perfectly working os and waste time trying to rewrite the exact same thing for years Nokia!? why!? it could have been an actual Linux phone revolution years ago. and no, I don't think Android is already Linux phone. fight me.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago (4 children)

Been daily driving SailfishOS for absolutely years. Originally ran it on a Nexus 4! It's by far the most polished not-Android/iOS phone OS going right now.

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 8 months ago (2 children)

pine phone

(also you should get their usb-c powered soldering iron... pinecil )

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Unusable as a daily driver. It’s a nice gadget, just expect the worst user experience ever.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 months ago

yeah well i was responding to:

Maybe we can use one in very few years as a normal daily driver. It's getting closer and closer every month.

so... yeah, i know it's not super useable as a daily driver (to a pussy)

but seriously it is getting a lot closer..,

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 months ago (5 children)

Pine phone is a nice gadget but I don't think they contribute to software development as much as Purism does. Not that I recommend buying anything from Purism because of their business practices.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 8 months ago
[–] [email protected] 19 points 8 months ago (2 children)

When I was looking a couple years ago Ubuntu Touch was by far the most developed and stable. Primarily because Canonical poured millions of dollars into its development before giving it up and dropping it, but the community has gone a long way to make it what it is today.

Probably not a popular choice on this community though.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 8 months ago

It's a friendly community, and Lomiri is a great DE that people have also gotten up and running on [other distros].

For the time being it runs better on Android devices than on "pure" linux phones such as the PinePhone, but I have great experiences with it. If you don't depend on other IM services than Signal you could probably use it as a daily driver on several phones already.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (6 children)

I think either PostmarketOS or Mobian would be the best existing candidates right now.
Hardware wise, the Fairphone 4 is probably the best option, especially compared to something like a Pinephone.

I tried Phosh (Gnome mobile shell) on an exhibition a while ago and honestly loved it.

However, I'm absolutely not confident in those tbh, in terms of reliability. The whole thing is highly experimental right now, and I wouldn't trust them as a daily driver.


Phosh is also available for Fedora, especially Silverblue (available as ARM iso), since you are, with me together, probably one of the most prominent Fedora Atomic fanboy :D

I see big potential in a uBlue-phone spin maybe. I tried making one myself, but I absolutely don't have a clue what I'm doing and don't want any responsibility for such a project.
Do you know if or how we could organise such a project?

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago (6 children)

If you want to support a Linux phone project, the PinePhone looks most promising. If you want an actual usable phone that runs open source software, offers great privacy and security, good (open source) app support and doesn't come with ads, trackers or any other bloatware, get a Google Pixel and install GrapheneOS and F-Droid.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

The problem with mobile phones is that they have big differences between each others in terms of hardware, so it's really hard to come up with a "unified solution", thus making development really slow.
Right now, the two distributions which came further in development are PostmarketOS and UbuntuTouch, but they are still far from being a reliable daily driver.

If the reason you'd like to chip in is not just Linux per se, but FOSS in general, there are plenty of fully free and open source Android roms that are a great deal in terms of usability, privacy and support, notably LineageOS, GrapheneOS, /e/OS and the one I chose for myself which is CalyxOS

Edit: when I talk about a phone being a "reliable daily driver", in my mind I think "a phone you can conduct a business with", so call and chat with clients, take pictures, exchange e-mails, have a working GPS and Bluetooth. And all of these features must be flawless and always available and sadly Linux phones aren't there yet.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

To which project would you give your money to accellerate it?

I would reign in your hopes of accelerating a project using money, unless you have enough money to pay someone's salary for a significant period of time.

That said, I'd suggest postmarketOS or Mobian might be the most worthy of donations.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 months ago

Postmarketos with phosh works "fine" with the pinephone.

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