this post was submitted on 28 Jan 2024
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I did a search from shitjustworks for "reddit die" and did not find https://lemmy.world/c/watchredditdie so I made https://sh.itjust.works/c/watchredditdie (unnecessarily). This should really not happen. When someone makes a community there should be a "ping" sent out to notify all other federated instances.

And from what I know, if I post to !sh.itjust.works/c/watchredditdie only users on sh.itjust.works will see the posts until other people from other instances randomly come across it somehow and subscribe? This really needs to be improved.

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[–] [email protected] 80 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

The devs actually talked about this in the AMA from a couple of days ago. Sounds like the current plan is to have all federating servers send their entire list of communities to each other on a regular basis.

The other thing that I think is worth mentioning is Lemmy Community Boost which is basically a bot that serves the same purpose.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

https://boost.lemy.lol <- link to it, doesnt work for instances not connected to it like lemmy.world but theres still ~ 26 major ones

[–] [email protected] 10 points 9 months ago

Thanks for reminding me that there was an AMA I forgot about lol.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago

Great news.

[–] [email protected] 41 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

I'm surprised there was no issue filed for this already, maybe I just failed to find it, but I made a new issue

https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/4412

if anyone wants to give it a thumbs up reaction then the devs will know to prioritize it, and if you have any ideas you could leave a comment there

Edit: that was somewhat a duplicate of this issue

https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/2951

Give that one a thumbs up

[–] [email protected] 9 points 9 months ago

Perfect, thank you!

[–] [email protected] 25 points 9 months ago (4 children)

The community you're trying to subscribe to only has one post, and I believe that post may predate your instance spinning up.

It's not really a good example of federation on Lemmy, because it doesn't have content to federate.

Even your ping idea wouldn't have worked here

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Isn’t that intentional though? I don’t believe many instances, especially the small ones, can afford to federate every community. Sure, sometimes it can be a bit annoying but you can always check on lemmyverse.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 9 months ago (2 children)

It should show up in community search even if they're not constantly pulling down every single post of those communities

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago

And just the instance metadata is tiny

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago

Fair enough

[–] [email protected] 10 points 9 months ago (1 children)

As a middle-ground, I think it's enough to only sync the community name and user count and maybe the description. More isn't shown in the search anyway and those 3 data points shouldn't take too much storage.

Syncing name solves the problem of communities not showing up. The problem with only being shown posts in a community someone on the instance has already subscribed to is more difficult, as you wrote.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 9 months ago

A good implementation would be a warning at the creation of a community. Lemmy looks if a community already exist on the instances and display them. It would be on top of a better search.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Lemmyverse.net show both communities: https://lemmyverse.net/communities?query=watchreddit

It probably didn't show up in the first place it only has 66 subscribers, and probably none on SJW.

About your second point, you indeed have to promote your community, using [email protected], or related communities. This works quite well usually.

I will add that in your case, people knew about your community as you posted in other communities, but as discussed then, people seemed happy with the existing Reddit-focused communities.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 9 months ago (6 children)

This works quite well usually.

I definitely don't agree. I think this is very problematic. I rely on all to find new communities. I don't think one newcommunities sub is a valid replacement. It would suffer from the same issue -- people would have to spam their post to every single instances's newcommunities sub, which is ridiculous and not even viable.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Relying on !all to have your newly created community to reach most of the people could work, but using the Scaled sort as it wouldn't have enough subscribers to push it using Hot or Active.

There is only one [email protected], it has 15k subscribers, seems like a pretty good way to promote it.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 9 months ago (2 children)

I'm not even subscribed to that, and even if I was, and it was a default subscription for every new lemmy.world user, I don't think it's a good replacement for a functional search or an all that includes all posts from federated instances. I see lots of posts on all-hot with 0-5 upvotes so it seems fine if it actually showed all communities on federated instances (which it doesn't).

[–] [email protected] 16 points 9 months ago

There is a security issue by allowing automatic federation with any federated instance: an attacker could just create a huge number of communities, with a large number of posts, exhausting the resources of small instances.

That's what I guess it the main reason why it works like it does now: the server only gets the content if someone is interested.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago (8 children)

Folks have given you a half dozen solutions here and your answer is consistently dismissive.

Did you want your problem solved or did you just want to bitch and argue?

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 months ago (2 children)

But your solution would require every new instance to subscribe to every community in existence even if no users there care about certain ones. It's innefficient.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Yeah there's a tool called LCB (Lemmy Community Boost but it's not a perfect solution to this issue. A good idea would be to have something like that built right into Lemmy, where instances can have an internal account that will look for and subscribe to communities which opt into discovery.

Soemthing like how the join-lemmy site works where it finds instances, but for communities. Obviously this would need to be enabled and allowed by instance moderators, smaller instances and personal ones with limited space probably don't want to pull from every community in the fediverse, but for larger ones, such a feature would be greatly beneficial.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

Tip is to feature it on the [email protected] community, crosspost the first few posts from there to more popular communities, and be sure to link various discussion threads from that community in other communities. Get people interested enough to Subscribe then posts will spread to that instance.

This inconvenience is partly by design in Lemmy. People that start up a new server don't want to have ALL the content across the Fediverse rush through and explode their PC or hosted VM. Or a troll that makes a new community, spams a bunch of posts or puts up illegal material in a new community can easily be caught in the home instance before it spreads to others.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 9 months ago

Pressure your instance to join https://boost.lemy.lol and pressure your mods to add the community there (or you can add it yourself if the instance is already part of the project).

[–] [email protected] 9 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Yeah, that's the issue federation for lemmy have. I'm from a very small instance and my "All" feed only shows just a fraction of community from those big instance. If i need more community post showing i need to manually request federation for each and every community. It's not too big of an issue if you're from big instance as people will likely look for more community to subscribe, but for small instance it will be barren most of the time if no one try to look for new community using external browser, which makes people migrate to bigger instance, and defeat the purpose of having multiple instance.

Though i must say, manually federating is quite fast these day, i remember last year i have to keep refreshing for it to shows, and it take hours for the content to federate. The dev surely do magic.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)

For small instances, admins can use tools like https://github.com/Fmstrat/lcs to subscribe to most of the active communities.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 9 months ago

Yes. Lemmy is deep in "good enough" territory. It mostly works for most people, much of the time. But if you stray outside of the main use cases, you're gonna be disappointed.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (5 children)

Something tells me that neither one of those communities are going anywhere anyway. No matter what tweaking is done to Lemmy. The one you mentioned is so dead you might as well have made another. There’s already Reddit themed communities that are meant for the same thing really as that’s all most of us want it to do is die.

[email protected]

[email protected]

[–] [email protected] 12 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Does this mean it’s time for /c/watchwatchredditdiedie?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Go for it, I'll subscribe. When that type of community takes off I'll know we've really gotten somewhere haha

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

This. I want to be able to see every community of every instance i‘m federated with with post and sub count. Thats a laughable amount of data. This would boost subscriptions by insane amounts.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago

I don’t think it’s bad thing that content is hidden.

To me, it’s comforting to think of cyberspace as being kind of like the real world. And in the real world, there’s distance. You can be near or far from things. You can travel, and the longer you travel the further you go. Things percolate through at a steady pace, and so everything’s not perfectly mixed but there are different zones with things going on.

When we had cyberspace shown to us in Snow Crash or Disclosure or NetRunner, it was always a space. Like a second world you could go live a life in.

I know it’s a loose connection, but I like how, in order to discover more instances I might have to travel to neighboring instances and then from there to others. Like each user you hear from has an instance in their username. That’s a way to discover instances.

And having redundant communities? That’s a great idea. Then you get that separation and divergent/recombinant evolution in those communities too.

Just a thought. As we add features, and remove constraints, from lemmy, we make serious architectural choices that will affect the way it feels and acts as space for communities to grow in.

We call it a Fediverse not a Fedidatabase. A ‘verse is a place you go through, at a speed, taking time. A ‘verse is a vast and wide place.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago (2 children)

The number of subscribers being completely different depending on which instance you search from is really weird/bad too IMO.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 9 months ago (2 children)

This is fixed in version 0.19.3, hopefully your instance will update soon

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago

that was fixed, I think in v0.19.0, but your instance hasn't updated yet

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