this post was submitted on 25 Jul 2023
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Shower thought(?) : some labels are less helpful. (lemmy.blahaj.zone)
submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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Since starting my questioning journey, I feel like some of sexual orientation labels make less sense. I like girls (a lot apparently). I have always liked girls. Therefore as amab I am straight, I realize one day in the future "fuck it, I'm transitioning" and then I'm not longer straight. It honestly would make a lot more sense to use words like gynophilic or androphilic to describe more of what you're attracted to instead of how your attraction relates to you

Probably too in my head about it or something. I don't mean any disrespect in anyway. I'm just in a long unexpected journey of self reflection and used to view those a little more concretely.

Also, if I ever do get to a point of feeling like I should transition, I'm definitely coming out as a lesbian first and try to let them work backwards. It could be funny. Maybe it could ease the conversation along?

I'm rambling now, this started as (I thought) a kind of funny thought, then got too serious and I'll shut up now.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Your orientation as it relates to you and your orientation as it relates to society are both important. A lesbian and a straight cis man are both attracted to women, but their experiences are very different, so I think having multiple options that we can use to describe our experiences is great. We find power in finding the right words to understand ourselves :)

Often, a lot of trans girls early in their journey of self ownership hesitate to use the label lesbian for themselves, because imposter syndrome is hard to overcome.

But that gets better with time too.

Either way, it doesn't matter what labels you use or why, what matters is that they are the labels that are helping to empower you and helping you to navigate the world. If they're doing that, they're the right labels :)

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Often, a lot of trans girls early in their journey of self ownership hesitate to use the label lesbian for themselves, because imposter syndrome is hard to overcome.

It truly is! Even though I know all this I still struggle telling girls that I'm lesbian. But when I do and they're understanding (99.9% of the time?) I feel happy and validated.

But nonetheless I still have my imposter syndrome :(

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

You make some good points. I love that I can bounce these ideas/questions off all of you!

I feel like I got more comfortable with the idea of lesbian applying to me faster than girl/woman (still questioning) but I just think about all the absolute shit cis women have to go through, and it makes me feel like, "there's no way I can compare" and a lot of "you only really want the fun feminine parts"(😓😖😫) and I admit, there's fun parts I like the idea of, and there's shitty parts I never deal with because of how I was born and I do feel like "why bother if I'll never fit" even though I already feel somewhat like I don't fit in anywhere.

Shit is complicated.

And as The Offspring said "Shit is fucked up"

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Like girls so much you became one. That's a pro move right there.

The language around sexuality is imperfect at best. I wouldn't worry too hard about it though. Just do what feels right to you.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

(☞^o^)☞ you know it!

It was mostly shower thinking

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You can always say “I like girls” explicitly in conversation

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

There's the easy blatantly obvious idea that my mind blindspotted away! It is accurate but it less of an easy packaged idea in a single word.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I 100% agree with this. I actually went to check to see if I made an alt one night because this is like reading my own thoughts lmao I'm a bit wasted atm so I hope this makes a bunch of sense. These labels are so frustrating to me.

I'm hung up on my own label because there are so many that I end up self-excluding. AMAB. Married to a woman for 10 years. I find both sexes physically attractive. Have slept with both, vagina is 100% for me, and penis 100% isn't. If I were single, an effeminate trans man would also make my knees weak.

I came out as nonbinary last year, almost exactly one year ago and have been 100% in girl mode for 9 months now. I own nothing male anymore. By all definitions, I'm trans and a raging lesbian. Except I'm not on HRT, and have zero desire to be. I have body dysphoria, yes. It is mostly remedied with clothes, makeup, and hopefully hair removal. Most of my "I wish I looked like her" stems from the fact that I'm not petite, have wide shoulders, and feel like my jaw line is too sharp.

So what is that? A cross dresser? I feel like thats still a slur. I've been calling it Holly. AKA, me. Just plain Holly. That's the name everyone besides family knows me as now. I still don't feel like I belong in any of the labels. I just don't feel like I am trans, or even nonbinary. Just Holly.

Labels are fucking hard, man. :(

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah I definitely feel you there. When I first started this journey, I never expected to at all. I'm 30,how the hell do I not know how I feel about myself? But, I didn't. And then the thought spirals. "I can't say 100% no I don't want to be a girl. I also can't say 100% I want to be a man. OMG what does that mean?! Does that mean I'm trans? Fuck I never expected that label to be applied to me fuck! What!) (#&@©€¢££°÷......" That was very difficult to break out of, but somehow I backed myself up to ,"you don't know how you feel, don't try to feel a label." I'm trying to think about how I feel about myself and find a way to articulate it and then later maybe I can see what fits me, instead of me fitting it.

I feel you on the body stuff too. Like, I want to present more femme, I have big-ass shoulders for guys even. I am also one of the hairiest people I've ever seen in my life, like literally continuously head to toe, front and back. How do I not look like "creep in a dress"?

Also, as I understand to idea of "trans", it can be as broad as not being 100% inline with gender/body ideas, non binary could be considered under the umbrella of trans.

I'm not wasted, but I feel like this may also not be very coherent. Hopefully it is enough.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

“you don’t know how you feel, don’t try to feel a label.”

My wife has been saying the exact same thing for months. It is incredibly difficult to change your thinking process like that and I'm still not there. Kudos to you for getting there! I think with enough therapy I'll get there too lol

I'm in my late 30s so our age difference isn't too great. These feelings came out of nowhere and are SO confusing.

"The Moment", a lot of oversharing, and possibly relevant trauma dumping (sorry)My realisation came when I was in between therapy sessions and trying to unpack childhood trauma. I was quite the angry person, and my therapist said "let's try a softer approach" and the word "soft" triggered me like milk coming to a boil. I couldn't figure out why. A few days later I was cleaning and "processing" and picked up my wife's skirt and put it on my lap because it looked cute (a little black lace and tulle one) and the elation I felt was off the charts. I felt soo happy, and then like most of my happy moments at the time, it was fleeting. I had to break the news and it was an extremely rough time.

Back in therapy, most of the events that I could remember were abusive, but couldn't figure out why until after that day. Almost all of them were because I would be playing with my sisters' dolls, "mother's" makeup, being affectionate and telling family members that I loved them, wanting to wear colourful clothes (it was the 90s for pete's sake), I was too SOFT, and things like that so we concluded that it was beaten out of me. Now I wonder how I would be if I had a supportive and nurturing family?

Tangent over. Here I am inching closer to my 40s with a lot of unresolved teenage angst, more questions, confusion, and everything in between and beyond. I didn't understand. There were SO MANY SIGNS that I (and everyone else apparently) ignored/were blind to. It's a lot of picking up the pieces, and it does get better as time goes on. At least I think it does. As I said last night, labelling is still the biggest issue. I never felt like I fit in anywhere, and now I feel like I fit in here on blahaj.zone. I ran away from Mastodon last year because I encountered a bigot (from our own community, no less) that made me feel like absolute dog shit for not feeling dysphoric enough to want HRT. I'm back on there now, and have been since I came to Lemmy, but I may move that over to the main blahaj.zone since I post more about gender than tech.

I feel you on the body stuff too. Like, I want to present more femme, I have big-ass shoulders for guys even. I am also one of the hairiest people I’ve ever seen in my life, like literally continuously head to toe, front and back. How do I not look like “creep in a dress”?

The hhaaaairr!!! I have this cluster of hairs on the inner corner of my mouth that grows back every 3 days. THREE. I was told that waxing and plucking was supposed to make it last longer. It aaabsolutely does not! I feel like we've been lied to lmao it makes me not want to even attempt laser removal because of how expensive the treatments can be, for what may be little personal gain. My 5:00 shadow starts less than an hour after shaving and can definitely relate.

If you don't mind, I have a tip to help with some of your shoulder dysphoria. Pad your hips if you can. This video by Bernadette Banner helped me understand quite a bit on how to style for the body I have. I lost a lot of weight in the past few years, and I managed to lose weight everywhere except for my chest and hips. The rest is loose skin, and I have a bit of a natural "ratio" going that my wife is jealous of if I use a shaper and boob tape lol.. I still hate my shoulders and body overall because long things become short things, but padding the hips definitely helps with the silhouette image if you want to give that a try. A-line skirts and dresses are my favourite kind, as they taper on the way down and then poof back out after the waist. Perfect for our shapes!

"Creep in a dress"... ugh. I hate those thoughts, and they are frequent. I wear high waisted skinny jeans and leggings out in public with a blazer, hoodie, or t-shirt most of the time because of those thoughts. They rule my life. I buy dresses in public, drape them over myself to check fit, buy them, and scurry home to take pics for my wife and friends so that they can tell me I'm pretty 💀 It's not healthy and I cannot wait for the general public to not give a shit about what I wear.

Also, as I understand to idea of “trans”, it can be as broad as not being 100% inline with gender/body ideas, non binary could be considered under the umbrella of trans.

I agree. Nonbinary could and should fall under that umbrella. Some nonbinary people undergo HRT to conform to their dominant side so it absolutely should apply. :)

This has gotten quite a bit long, its a passionate subject 😂

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

It is a passionate subject! It's like trying to learn about the absolute core of your being and it turns out that you don't really know what's underneath it all.

I love that I found the blahåj, it's honestly one of, if not the best communities I've been a part of online.

That video was not really what I expected, but far more interesting than I was prepared for. It reminds me of another channel I have watched I the past called Prior Attire

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Back when I was a young girl who thought she was a guy (I stole that line from Stephane Stirling, and will use it forever), I had always joked I was a lesbian, because if a girl who liked girls was lesbian, than so was I. Side note, it's weird how your brain drops crap like that on you, and you don't come out to yourself til you're 37. Anyways, a year an a half ago, I realized I was bi. I have a thing for big, hunky guys, almost exclusively, on the masculine side. If it weren't for that little self discovery, welllll... I can safely say I called myself out on that one. Even now, though I do describe myself as bi, I do have a heavy preference for feminism. At least, until I discover if my lust for women is either scientific or carnal. Kinda been coming to the realization I probably wasn't wanting their body, I was wanting to have their body.

Sorry for oversharing...

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

probably wasn't wanting their body,I was wanting to have their body.

I'm not 100% the direction you're going here, but definitely lately I have been more or less maybe both "I want your body" (to enjoy) and "I want to be you", which feels odd, because it hasn't been much of a thing til recently.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'll admit to have watching porn just to get off, but honestly, I used to think I was some pervert freak. Now... Now I realize I wasn't wanting lustfully ogle those innocent women at the mall. I was admiring, studying. Probably trying some things out in my head. You know Amber, from Genshin Impact? I haven't played it in a couple of years, but I kinda wanna adopt that style. Booty shorts, low cut shirt. I wanna adopt some of the stuff and styles I've seen, and hope I can be as pretty as they are some day. Ya know?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well it does actually make more sense. The labels hetero and homosexual were made from the heteronormative perspective and are closely related to the " straight -> normal | gay -> disease " narrative. The term homosexual was used first to discriminate to mostly men who like other men, regardless of the modern concept of homosexuality. They didn't think much about sexuality, if it was different it must be Homosexuality or Lesbianism. The terms are just an acient relic from times of Hitler or Bismarck, from times when gays got regularly imprisoned, beaten up or killed for being gay.

The rest is just me Ranting about labels:

I have found that actually labels don't really make much sense. Many people are trying to find a label for themselves but can't so they're trying to force themselves in a drawer they later find out doesn't fit and at least when it comes to trans people in combination with sexualities people start to question the real meaning of labels. I am happy for all who have found a label but from my perspective it's just another way of putting people into drawers. Actually gender and sexuality is not static, but it's just another aspect of your personality that changes with time. Labels are a way of oversimplifying the complexity of our selves and while I do acnowledge that abstraction might be useful in many situations, we should not need the labels of the lgbtq+ community as just as the term homosexual itself it's purpose is to just discriminate and differenciate between people who are essentially to be seen as equal. It should not matter if I feel drawn to guys and girls as in the end we still have to judge by the individual in every case. Sexual and Gender identity tells you nothing about what a person did, does or will do, it doesn't tell you anything about what a person was, will be or is. I think our all goal should be to see labels as obsolete. We should not need a label to accept ourselves and others and we should accept ourselves and others as the indiviuals they are.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I feel the label rant. It also puts up a huge barrier to some of us newly questioners because of labels that may apply, but more importantly, our perception of what the label "means" or how we/culture looks at said label.

Getting past that was difficult, but meaningful to be able to just, "how do you feel? How does this make you feel" without "do I feel like I am a [label]"

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

i 100% agree! its so frustrating that the commonly used labels imply both the gender of me and the people im attracted to. id use those words you mentioned if only they werent so ugly

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Yeah I saw maybe those words or something very similar used first in a scientific study in the 90s or later, so definitely the cold scientific rigidity even if it hasn't cough on.

I'm no wordologist, but something that mean attracted to femme-presenting or masc-presenting would feel more accurate,but yeah I'm not gonna be the one to coin a new set of words.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Got curious, ended up here: https://www.lgbtqia.wiki/wiki/Gynesexual Wondering what current discourse is on whether it's transphobic? It seems to have gotten more popularity since last i looked. Honestly femmesexual and mascsexual sounds more appealing to us without any real reference to genitals or specific genders? Plus it's just easier for our perma-fried brain to remember~

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I do like femmesexual/mascsexual!

I get the idea, but had never heard the term genitalist before, and it's kind of funny.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I agree we should change the labels. I just wanted to say that I did find it interesting how when I was young I tried really hard to just be a gay man, even though I knew I was trans, I figured my life would be easier if I could just be a gay man instead. It never felt right to me, but now that I've transitioned, it feels completely natural to call myself a gay woman. It just reinforces for me that you can't change your sexual orientation no matter how hard you try. For a lot of people, one or the other just fits better.

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