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Chinese crescent-tipped maces, 18th-19th century (thelemmy.club)
submitted 2 days ago* by to c/history@hexbear.net
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https://www.mandarinmansion.com/item/chinese-crescent-tipped-maces

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[–] 4 points 2 days ago (5 children)

It seems likely to break relatively easily with a bad swing. Also very late for a mace type of weapon, would the Qing dynasty have had much of a use for a weapon like this? I don't think any of their foes or peasant rebels wore much armour. Maybe that's the point and it's non-lethal, used for suppression?

Maybe it's a practice/training weapon? Teaches you how to swing a sword more effectively or something?

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 2 days ago* (4 children)

    see these comments: https://hexbear.net/comment/7567870, https://hexbear.net/comment/7568237

    it's also pretty chonky, it's mostly just a steel rod and even the head isn't all that thin, so I doubt there's much potential for breaking, perhaps the ends of the crescent could chip somewhat if you directly hit something with them

    Maybe that's the point and it's non-lethal, used for suppression

    and yes, this is the likely use, although we don't know for sure since there's only a handful examples of this type known and not much data

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  • [–] 4 points 2 days ago (3 children)

    Oh yep. Should probably read the comments before just commenting myself.

    I wonder if they were a little experimental because the Qing were trying to modernise their military and largely failing at it, so there could've been a lot of experimental weapons they were testing to see if it would give them an advantage?

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 2 days ago (2 children)

    I think this wasn't really a military weapon, more of a police/civilian thing. The Qing modernization attempts were mostly copying Western military methodology, although I guess that was more towards the 1900s so before that they may have tried some weirder stuff

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  • [–] 4 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    Yeah, it's an era I wouldn't really associate with a lot of experimentation, more just trying to emulate the west, though I don't really know a whole lot about the Qing in the 18th century, so I don't know how useful something like this might've been. If there aren't really a lot of them and they aren't written about much, it's probably a sign that they weren't really useful beyond some niche cases.

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 2 days ago

    The ones which are just a regular rod, without a fancy head, do actually have a decent amount of examples, and the Okinawan variety, the sai, is one of the weapons in their traditional martial arts. So those at least are well-attested to.

    This crescent-head one was perhaps someone trying to iterate on the concept and add some extra hooking and/or striking opportunities, but it seems like it didn't catch on.

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    • [–] 6 points 2 days ago (5 children)

    Interesting weapon, assuming it's designed for slashing? I know maces are supposed to be percussion weapons against armor, right?

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  • [–] [S] 7 points 2 days ago* (4 children)

    Unknown, it's a very obscure weapon type with not a lot of examples around. The middle portion is unsharpened, and it's actually not really blade-shaped at all, it's just a solid bar (hence the "mace" moniker even though it doesn't really look like what most would identify as a mace)

    There's a bunch of so-called Chinese "maces" which are really just a steel bar with a hilt (not having the big heavy head at the end like European and Middle Eastern maces)

    and this seems to basically be that design but with this crescent-shaped element added at the end. And that crescent isn't really that sharp either:

    So perhaps it's intended for hooking actions? Definitely very cool looking, especially with the mirror symmetry between the hilt and the head here

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  • [–] 4 points 2 days ago* (2 children)

    What does that un-headed "mace" supposed to do? Poke you bluntly really hard?

    You sure isn't a knife sharpener?

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 2 days ago*

    It definitely loses its effectiveness against armor this way, but it's still a solid rod of metal, and quite painful to be hit with - so it's somewhat closer to a truncheon or baton, it's more something used in a police or bodyguard context for disabling and potentially capturing someone rather than necessarily for killing (although you could probably inflict some pretty nasty bone fractures like this).

    https://www.mandarinmansion.com/item/antique-chinese-bronze-mace

    Forked guards are also going to be helpful with binding against an opponent's weapon and controlling it, like in parrying daggers used alongside rapiers, although not all examples have them, some are basically just a metal rod with some added material to act as a grip

    Them being called maces is just a historiographical quirk, they don't really have much to do with proper anti-armor maces. It's like this being called a "Khyber knife" - it is neither a knife nor actually related specifically to the Khyber Pass, rather being a more generally Afghan style of shortsword, but it's just a name that's stuck around in English-language historiography because some Brits back in the 19th century decided to call it that.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 days ago

    If it's anything like a sai, it's more of a club that just happens to have a thrusting point that will hurt like a motherfucker through chainmail.

    The crescent version would be useful for hooking a shield, but it might double as a sword breaker too.

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