With the ever-ongoing ‘progress’ of the proposed UK nuclear power plants, I wonder if this is the best course of action (not just in the UK, but across other nations also)?

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[–] 12 points 2 days ago (4 children)

My understanding is the best answer is 'all of the above.' Nuclear is big and expensive, and just as expensive to expand, and has ongoing input costs like skilled staff, water, fuel, etc. but produces very steady, controllable power, and can do so for decades in a well designed and maintained system. Solar and wind, on the other hand, are very easily scaled down to smaller budgets, but generate intermittent power. It can be very useful to have the nuclear as a backup for moments of high demand and low solar/wind output, but very efficient to mostly use renewables because they don't have much of an ongoing input cost.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago* (2 children)

    Well, don't forget that wind and solar also use battery systems, not that I am arguing with you at all. I work for a solar power company, and it is really rare that we aren't contributing to the grid.

    When we aren't, it is because a deer decided to chew up a cable, honest to god. We put up fences: not to keep humans out, but deer.

    Seriously, we have a site where the gate is "locked" with a 5' ethernet cable that has a burnt end. Recycle reuse!

    But yes, nuclear is needed as the failsafe.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago

    This is a good answer.

    Nuclear for the base load that can be ramped up/down as needed, and using renewables like wind/solar/hydro as much as possible.

    In my country it's mostly hydro, which is fantastic, but would be even better if we had nuclear as a base load solution and hydro to catch the peaks and for export.
    Sadly most people fear nuclear here, so it won't happen soon.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago

    I would say that the good answer is "mox" (not sure of its english name, but it is likely similar. Used uranium is extremly dangerous for a very long time (millions of years). Yet it could be recycled and used again, and the result would be extremly dangerous for about 500 years (which is still far too much, but less crazily impossible to manage).

    We already have enough used uranium to cover the next 200 years of needs, at least... And so it would be a lesser harm for future generation if we use mox than new uranium...

    (But the true answer is we need new bombs, so new uranium...)

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  • [–] 21 points 2 days ago (5 children)

    Hey, I'm in the biz. "Either or" isn't a thing. We need a completely diversified grid. Mostly nuclear would be ideal with a big chunk coming from solar/wind/hydro. Even fossil fuels have a place in certain applications.

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 2 days ago (4 children)

    May I ask what you do if you don’t mind me asking?

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  • [–] 8 points 2 days ago* (3 children)

    Mechanical engineer on the operations side of a large Co-Generation power plant. Partially qualified to operate in a nuke plant too, they just don't exist in my area.

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 2 days ago (2 children)

    Interesting. What kind of energy sources does your co-generation use? Part renewables, part fossil fuels I presume?

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  • [–] 10 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 child)

    No, all natural gas with number 2 oil (diesel) as a backup. The co part comes from the fact the Brayton and Rankine cycles are working together. The former being how a gas turbine works and the latter being how a steam system works. I can go into more depth but it's boring. I like renewables, just not as a blanket one size fits all solution. People tend to form an oppinion about this kind of thing based on vibes not reality, experience or math. I've worked at hydro plants before and like I said am mostly qualified legally to work in nuclear.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 days ago (3 children)

    So the planet's been using solar and wind for millions of years and it seems to have worked okay.

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    [–] 41 points 3 days ago (22 children)

    Wind and solar. Pop up, pop down. Nuclear needs entrenched infrastructure. The future is always renewables.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 days ago (11 children)

    Ok wait what's the plan for a cold still day? You need a base load supplier like nuclear for renewables to work

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  • [–] 3 points 2 days ago (10 children)

    You use these things called "power lines" which make it easy to send electrical energy to different places

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  • [–] 5 points 2 days ago (7 children)

    Yes, because Checks notes we should power Great Britain with massive undersea transcontinental cables. Did I get that right?

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    [–] 12 points 2 days ago* (3 children)

    Both are needed for a healthy power structure.

    Wind, solar even with batteries have low innertia (actually no innertia at all by themselves). If you want to resist turbulences on the power network without free innertia resistance by turbines (nuclear, gas, hydro), you need expensive equipment to generate that innertia other ways, and it can get quite expensive.

    Hydro would be great but it's highly seasonal.

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    [–] 2 points 2 days ago*

    wind and solar. hydro is environmentally unfriendly but renewable. nuclear is not pratical long term, or in the short term, since it needs to build out an expensive nuclear plant, plus all the regulatory approval you need to get through, can easily take 10 years at the minimum and also there significant resistance to nuclear power plants being built in many states, plus all the need to hire expensive technicins, scientists to maintain a plant. solar, wind is much cheaper and faster to set up. Most govt is are totally resisting to fast track it. because Oil money is in politicians pockets.

    our tech is not even close for things like fusion or even geothermal that is in alot of fantasy scifi genre right now.

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  • [–] 15 points 3 days ago (2 children)

    It depends on a lot of factors, which is part of why the question is divisive. To oversimplify:

    On one hand, when done optimally, nuclear provides huge amounts of power extremely cleanly and safely - even compared to renewables. There is also a number of options that could allow for significantly reduced costs and significantly increased flexibility such as SMRs, or other reactor technologies. On the other hand, nuclear has a mountain of roadblocks in front of it including antinuclear sentiment, policy blocks (particularly stemming from that sentient), and a lack of know-how increasing cost and slowing both building of reactors and development of new technologies. This means it could be amazing in the long term, particularly in regions that are suboptimal for renewables, and for industries requiring large amounts of power 24/7, but it can't do much in the short-term.

    Renewables meanwhile, are cheap, fast and easy to build and easy to expand to the point where until ideal conditions, even individuals can afford to install and run their own electrical infrastructure. As such, its amazing to quickly reduce prices, reduce emissions, and reduce dependence on governments. On the other hand, most renewable options lack flexibility. Solar only runs half the day, and the further you are from the equator, the lower the efficacy. Wind takes up huge amounts of space. Hydro requires damable rivers and space to avoid destroying ecosystems. There's lots of options, but they also have large limits. As technology improves these will limits will be reduced (such as improving battery technology) but they are still present.

    Ultimately, this means that where available, renewables are nearly always best in the short term. Long term, it gets messier, since it depends on what we invest in now, which technologies end up going somewhere versus being dead ends, and how the world changes in general. Most predict a mixed approach would be best, both to address the variety of global needs, and to spread risk. All that said, global warming is, at this point, a short-term problem. We can't afford to focus on the long-term anymore, which is why there is so much focus on renewables. We need to be replacing and expanding infrastructure yesterday so we don't have time to wait for nuclear, and debatably, can't afford to be investing in an energy technology that won't pay off for decades when that could be further invested in renewables.

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  • I think that part of the antinuclear sentiment, while it's in part irrational, has something to do with a very rational fear: whe have longly seen the devastating effects of nuclear accidents. From Chernobyl to Tōkai-mura, and from there to Fukushima.

    While theoretically the human risks are reduced to almost zero, the natural risks hadn't run the same luck.

    Also, I feel that for the renewables, one big deal that we're missing are the microenergy leaks (although in Japan they're already beginning to take advantage of these, with for example piezoelectric roads, or water heating systems that at the same time generate residual electricity, or Peltier heaters and/or coolers that as they acclimatize also generate complementary amounts of energy).

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    [–] 2 points 2 days ago (2 children)

    when you say "long-run" is it human life expectancy long or heat-death of the universe long?

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 1 day ago (1 child)

    I mean long run as in however long we are going to need/have/use it, basically. So, until humanity ceases to exist, ig?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago

    wind/solar then. nuclear power requires long-term storage up to 250 years for waste to be safely disposed of. during those 250 years leakage and accidents can lead to environmental impacts.

    though wind and solar has industrial waste and environmental impacts through their manufacturing, the long-term effects are manageable when compared to the scale of a nuclear superfund site for the entire longevity of humanity.

    this is all assuming there is no further technological developments that would change the nuclear waste to nuclear fuel, as I know there are currently some developing fusion technologies that are using nuclear waste as a fuel to run 100% clean. should those technologies develop further and paired with nuclear power the risks are mitigated and nuclear+fusion become a clean leader of power.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 days ago (1 child)

    Wind & solar for sure. Nuclear fission is great right now, but fissile material is a finite resource. It will, like oil, eventually become too expensive to extract.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 days ago (1 child)

    Nuclear was probably the best choice in the 1970’s; France made the best choice. But we’ve seen over and over again the problems are getting worse rather than better. Paperwork and process ever more unwieldy. Construction taking longer and longer. Radioactive waste building up with no permanent disposal. By far the highest cost power generation, and the difference is getting wider.

    Much of the posts about how great it will be this time is just astroturfing by those trying to profit. No, “small modular reactors”, didn’t solve the cost, construction, or process issues, but only raised the cost of generation. No, thorium isn’t the silver bullet and really doesn’t exist yet.

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