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submitted 4 years ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

u/3corneredtreehopp3r - originally from r/GenZhou
A bit of an odd question, but something that keeps popping in my head that I can’t shake. Hoping to get some other opinions.

Before COVID, I had started a marxist reading group to try to work through Capital together. I didn’t know any marxists/communists at the time, so everyone that came was a total stranger responding to posters I had put up in a few places.

In general it was a great experience with a surprisingly good turnout, although after a few months attendance dropped off quite a bit. I think the text was a little dense for a beginner group, probably should have started with something easier. Honestly I made a lot of mistakes that I wouldn’t repeat if I were to do it again.

In any event, eventually it was just me and one other guy, who set off alarms for me after a while.

He was white and in his mid-thirties. Pretty easy conversationalist. He had an older copy of Capital V1 that he brought with him that looked like it had been read a lot. Like maybe 10-20 times. But he had a somewhat odd understanding of certain passages and would ask the group for their opinion on what x,y, or z thing meant. He would readily agree with whatever the consensus was, never really argued his points.

He claimed to be a member of PSL, and he might have actually been one, I’m not sure. But the nearest PSL organization is about a 2 hour drive or train ride away. He claimed he would make the trip every weekend, and spend time down there doing whatever just hanging out in the big city. Maybe that’s normal for some people, but I’ve never personally met anyone who does that unless they’re in a long-distance relationship. It didn’t sound like he went there to meet anyone, he claimed he just wandered around on his own.

But there’s another odd thing. He had a bunch of 12-gauge shotgun ammunition with him one day, and offered it to me saying he couldn’t use it. It was a whole grocery bag full of boxes of shells.. several hundred rounds. It felt like a very weird thing to offer someone out of the blue.

When it was just the two of us and nobody else was coming anymore, I was still trying to have a discussion to work through the book one or two chapters at a time. But then after a couple meetings of that he said he would rather just hang out, drink beer, and talk casually—and that it was going to take too long to get through the book. And then he said that he thought the key to Revolution was to try to get people to stop working at their jobs. Like start taking 3-day weekends, then 4-day weekends, etc. I told him that sounded like a utopian anarchist plan and that it didn’t really make sense to me.

That was the last time I talked to him because he just gave me the heebie jeebies and he obviously wasn’t going to be much help getting through the book.

But what do you think? On a scale of 90-100%, how likely is it that there’s a file on me in the Hoover building? And secondly, how are you supposed to organize and not be infiltrated?

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[-] [email protected] 4 points 4 years ago

u/AmNOTaPatriot - originally from r/GenZhou
That sounds a lot like a Fed, or at the very least an extremely dodgey fellow.

What makes me lean towards Fed is the shotgun shell aspect. That strikes me as some sort of set up, and is highly off putting.

Anyways, it was wise to break contact with them; as the Youth would say “he was acting sus”.

As for the second part, it’s not possible to avoid Feds. You simply prepare for it as a group (and as an individual) and stay vigilant; and that’s really all you can do. And if they’re as janky as this guy was, then they should be far easier to spot.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 4 years ago

u/3corneredtreehopp3r - originally from r/GenZhou
Yes the shotgun shells really set me off as (potentially) the very early stage of a longer plan. I think if he had never made that offer I might not have thought as critically about the other things.

It makes sense, regarding infiltration. This was such an innocuous little group that it feels strange that any serious resources would be dedicated to it. But it also makes a lot of sense for the feds/cops to want to be in on the ground floor of any scientific socialist organizing activities, no matter how small.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 4 years ago

u/marbledinks - originally from r/GenZhou
Isn't it great how terrified they are of us? It's because they know the truth is on our side.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 4 years ago

u/3corneredtreehopp3r - originally from r/GenZhou
Yes it definitely is a sign that we are on the path that is most threatening to them.

I can’t stress enough how rinky-dink this group was. I had no experience with what I was doing, and it disintegrated entirely organically with no real outside interference. The fact that there may have been an agent there to keep an eye on what we were doing speaks volumes—both in terms of the potential threat we pose, and the lengths they are willing to go to make sure we are sufficiently suppressed.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 4 years ago

u/ortolon - originally from r/GenZhou
He could also been on several different assignments besides just your group.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 4 years ago

u/Clownbaby5 - originally from r/GenZhou
Well it definitely doesn't sound like they put their best man on this assignment. I'm not American but I imagine even there it's strange to gift someone shotgun shells out of the blue. It was either a fed or a really weird guy so either way it's a win to break off contact with him.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 4 years ago

[deleted] - originally from r/GenZhou
That sounds pretty spooky OP. I’d say to go with your gut. Even if the guy isn’t a fed, if he sets off alarm bells in your head, don’t ignore them.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 4 years ago

u/UndergradRelativist - originally from r/GenZhou
He's probably just a weird dude. You'd have to have a pretty major thing going on in order for the government to find you important enough to spy on imo

[-] [email protected] 1 points 4 years ago

u/chipliony - originally from r/GenZhou
This is not true, the FBI playbook has been to attempt to get into groups on the ground floor so it seems more organic, and they can more easily get into leadership and make the group ineffective.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 4 years ago

[deleted] - originally from r/GenZhou
[deleted]

[-] [email protected] 1 points 4 years ago

u/Choorino - originally from r/GenZhou
hard to say, 50/50, but if he is one, he is a super bad one, or a super good one, hard to say, 50/50.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 4 years ago

u/Elektribe - originally from r/GenZhou

On a scale of 90-100%, how likely is it that there’s a file on me in the Hoover building

You're posting here, your info is in a data center in Utah already. The U.S. government archives and checks on everything.. also reddit has not warrant canary anymore. That there is a file matters s bit less than whether it'll be accessed depending on how much attention you draw. If your not a particular hassle for them, you'll just be a file. There's a reason the leading members of the soviets had a habit of not using their real names. You should perhaps pick up that habit - and probably the less fancy or unique the better.

Also, it should be regular practice to never trade or discuss weapons in any leftist reading groups etc... Go through typical legitimate channels for acquisitions.

But agreed that he sounded like a utopian anarchist, which... yeah also sounds fed like.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 4 years ago

u/3corneredtreehopp3r - originally from r/GenZhou
That all makes sense.

It’s unfortunate that in order to build a scientific socialist movement, we will at some point need to become a hassle to them and have our files pulled. Without going into details, I’ve already made my share of mistakes. I’m sure that it would be fairly trivial for them to take me down as soon as I became a real hassle.

Using an alternative name sounds like a good practice. I will do that going forward for any real organizing activity, and encourage others to do the same.

this post was submitted on 02 Jun 2021
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