this post was submitted on 01 Dec 2023
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[–] [email protected] 124 points 11 months ago (6 children)

A lot of earlier geek fandom movies were released ahead of its time. Scott Pilgrim vs. The World came out in 2010 and didn't find its audience, if it had released 5 years later it would've been a smash hit.

[–] [email protected] 53 points 11 months ago (6 children)

I’d put Spawn in this category as well. While not without its issues I think it captures the spirit of the comic fairly well and is still worth a watch even 20-some years later. I still have no idea how Michael Jai White didn’t become a bigger action star…

[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago

The Spawn movie was huge when it was fresh. The demand for McFarlane toys and the industry it spawned speaks for itself. I'd say that without it coming out at the time, comic book movies might not have been made in the 2000's

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago

Because they cut this scene from Kill Bill. Par II

https://youtu.be/oL1vfdVS_UA

[also, there's a ridiculous number of Michaels involved in QT's movies; Michael Parks, Michael Madsen...

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 11 months ago

SPVTW has long been among my favourite movies of all time. And I remember when it released my best friend said it was a bunch of "hipster bullshit"

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[–] [email protected] 111 points 11 months ago (8 children)

Maybe a controversial take.. I like Snyder's ending better than the book.

Ozymandius tricking Dr Manhattan into building a bomb that blows up NYC is a lot more grounded in possibility that a giant psychic squid.

[–] [email protected] 41 points 11 months ago (1 children)

They’re both products of their times. The squid made sense in a time where comic books weren’t as grounded as they are today.

Also a squid makes more sense when you actually foreshadow a squid. The movie would have had to shoehorn that in through the plot and that would have been a mess.

It was cleaner. Different medium, different capabilities.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I don't see how foreshadowing improves anything. Ozy explaining his bizarre and horrible plan and then revealing it's already happened is a wonderful moment. Knowing it's going to happen before it does would ruin it.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Foreshadowing the squid is well done in the comics and does not change the reveal. You should read it if you haven’t.

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

Have you watched the HBO show? The squid totally works.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago

I want more of that HBO show. I hope they can do more storylines from that timeline.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The whole Dr Manhattan plan could've blown up at his face though if he took it personally and killed everyone.

I do kind of like the squid ending because it's supposed to be something completely unexpected and unbelievable that governments would actually believe it's an alien. They could've foreshadowed it a bit better but I like the weirdness of it.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago (4 children)

I like the TV show fleshing out the squid thing more. I think the movie ending was fine for the time though.

I remember recommending the movie to people and being told "you should have warned me there was blue penis" by one person. And then he went on to say "blue penis" at random times when he saw me. I don't know how he would have reacted if there was a giant alien psychic squid attack

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago

Yeah, while the movie had its flaws, notably pacing, my wife and sister lost it at "big blue penis," and I was like, "what? THAT was what you focused on?"

I still felt the movie was pretty true to the message and had some memorable scenes and lines.

“None of you seem to understand. I’m not locked in here with you. You’re locked in here with me!”

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The ending works a lot better, agreed. But most of the beginning and middle bits change the tone/framing/emphasis/etc to give the exact opposite meaning to what was originally intended. Biggest example I can think of is the opening battle between the Comedian and ~~Ozymandias~~ the mysterious assassin; in the graphic novel that fight is framed as a dying, bitter alcoholic well past his prime getting absolutely bodied in an unceremonious and fitting end to a despicable man. In the film, sure he loses in the end but it's a much closer fight and he goes out in a blaze of glory, defiant to the end, quite literally a hero's last stand. Snyder also does his best to make Rorschach look as cool as possible (while still being grungy and uncouth) instead of how he is in the graphic novel: psychotic, extremely antisocial, and borderline fascist. Again, the change to the ending was a good choice, but there were many other choices made that I personally completely disagree with

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago

The ending was equally fine as the book, the main issue I have is that in the book, the only real super powered person was Dr. Manhattan.

A lot of things don't make a ton of sense having all the heroes have super strength and durability.

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[–] [email protected] 84 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

I've wondered what the reception to Starship Troopers would have been if it was released 10 years later in 2007, as the US was bogged down in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Instead it was released during the era of dumb action movies and was treated as such.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

I was way too young and credulous to understand what starship troopers was doing. Other than feeling a little bad for the alien worm at the end i just watched it like an action movie.

Now that I'm a more experienced adult, it is overt in its commentary to the point it's hard to believe i missed or the first time.

I use this lesson for myself when i find it hard to believe other people cannot see the propaganda that we are immersed in daily, or get a different message from a piece of media.

After all, I missed it too. I watched the same movie at two points in my life and saw two very different things. I think about that alot

[–] [email protected] 20 points 11 months ago (1 children)

To me the thing that made me go "how did I miss that" was a one armed man proudly proclaiming "the Army made me into the man I am today"

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago

I use this lesson for myself when i find it hard to believe other people cannot see the propaganda that we are immersed in daily, or get a different message from a piece of media.

This is a very good take away from that experience. One of the worst things to assume is that you are any different.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Paul Verhoeven is such a mixed bag. You get inspired trash like Robocop and Starship Troopers together with actual trash like Showgirls and Hollow Man.

But I don't agree that the timing would have made much of a difference. If anybody took more notice of the movie, it'd be the chuds who mistake the lampooning of fascism as glorification. I've been quoted Rasczak's class lecture about force and democracy unironically more than once.

A friend of mine screens tender matches by asking potential dates about Starship Troopers or Fight Club. It's hilarious bc the chuds think she's chill af right up till she unmatches.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

He made a movie about fascism when no one was taking about fascism or eternal wars or anything like that. This was the blissful period between the end of the cold war and the start of the war on terrorism. It was the time of kick back, turn your brain off, and watch Arnold blow shit up. Watch aliens blow up the Whitehouse. Starship Troopers completely mismatched the time.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago (7 children)

There’s a book by John Steakley called Armor that reminds me a lot of Starship Troopers and really captures the feel of an embattled military operation.

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[–] [email protected] 52 points 11 months ago

True, Zack Snyder was failing to understand comics long before Disney was.

[–] [email protected] 49 points 11 months ago (6 children)
[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Fun trivia that Smash Mouth's All Star was originally on the soundtrack for this movie and the music video features clips from Mystery Men, two years before Shrek.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Wait?? there was life before Shrek???

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago

Not what id call 'life' but yea

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago (2 children)

the performances in that film are fantastic.. actors don't get enough credit for the work they do in silly films like this one, because Kinnear is great, Stiller is great, Geoffrey Rush is hilarious, Garofalo is awesome, Macy is obviously great, they're all awesome..

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago

Don't forget about Mystery Team.

https://youtu.be/m1CM1xwpoW0

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 11 months ago (6 children)

I keep telling people to watch the HBO show from 2019. It has some obvious flaws but Regina King is always fire and IMO episode 6 is still some of the best TV I've seen.

It also came out the year before the BLM protests of 2020 and damn was the subject matter relevant. Almost prescient.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 11 months ago (3 children)

My wife and I had never heard of the Tulsa Race Massacre at the time. We were debating whether it was in poor taste to write such a disturbing/racist/violent event in fiction. Then we actually looked it up and realized how we had been failed by our grade school educations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre

[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Great show, but as a Tulsan the show was hard to watch because it's a nice city now, but still with some racial tensions. The Tulsa Race Riots were depicted pretty fairly; it was an absolutely heinous event in American history that gets little attention even here.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago

It was honestly mind blowing to learn that most white Americans legit didn't know what the US was like in the 1900s.

That realization played a large part in me investigating how white Americans basically lied themselves into believing the US gov/white Americans made amends for their crimes towards blacks during the period called Reconstruction - in reality, most gains black Americans made after the civil war (e.g. the surge in black politicians, the ability to get educated/start schools, etc.) were immediately taken away by means of terrorism, disenfranchisement, and bs legislation.

The movie/doc Exterminate All The Brutes does a great job detailing the stories Americans used to tell about themselves and how they had to deal with savage natives/tribes and whatnot. It's hard to watch but it really shows how we've all been victims of very effective propaganda. I mean, we literally recite a pledge of allegiance as children. The bs goes deep.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It's a good show but it feels like it has barely anything to do with Watchmen. The main villain was so weak compared to what the comic was going for, and the main character is a raging asshole while the show acts like we're supposed to be sympathetic to her.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago (2 children)

the main character is a raging asshole while the show acts like we're supposed to be sympathetic to her.

So… like the comic?

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago

Yeah, literally everyone who liked the HBO series went in skeptical that they would even attempt such a thing. It’s so good though.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago

I found that show by accident and decided to watch. WOW. It was great.

Too bad there’s only one season, but oh well. It works if you think of it as a miniseries.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Watchman is a franchise with an intense blessing when so many seem cursed. The movie was made by someone who didn't understand the comic at all and it turned out fantastically, despite that. Easily the best Snyder product, and I do generally like his goofy ass.

Then, over a decade later, it has a weird HBO TV show, made by the creator/writer of Lost, someone who did at least understand very well the comics. But someone with a controversial track record, and making a show entirely out of original material. And it SLAPS. I tend to market it as "what if lost was rated R, 1 season long, and perfect". Still got my fingers crossed for another season, but it doesn't need it at all.

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[–] [email protected] 30 points 11 months ago (1 children)

But it would be derivative if released nowdays. A part of its appeal was that it was something different in a sea of the same.

[–] [email protected] 51 points 11 months ago (2 children)

There's an incredible irony here too. Watchmen the comic was released after years of superhero comics had played out the tropes to exhaustion. Watchmen was a critique of that comics industry. So to say that it belongs in a post-Endgame world is to acknowledge that the movie adaptation is now working as pre-satire of what superhero movies would become.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 11 months ago (1 children)

But this is why things like The Boys and Invincible are doing so well right. They parody the super hero movie tropes, as well as modern day life and media. The Watchmen movie as it exists was just fine for what it was, but instead of dark parody, like its source material, it went full-on blockbuster superhero. If it was released today and done well, I think it would be a hit

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The point you made about the boys and invincible is the point the article is making. If it had realesed around now itd be crazy successful as a tear down of the super hero capeshit, assuming they did it the same justice now as they did then.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago (3 children)

But the watchmen movie didn't really act as a takedown. Aesthetically it is completely still convinced superheroes are cool, there isn't a whiff of subversion about the Zack Snyder version. Zack Snyder read Watchmen the same way he read Batman Returns. "Wow! Dark comic is cool! What is subtext???"

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago

Id say the subtext is still there, but ill admit i wish it was there intentionally as a choice of the dircetor and not just seeping through the source material in a watered down way.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Everything I needed to know about Zach Snyder I learned from Sucker Punch. The lack of insight combined with the gall to behave like it was somehow progressive was amazing.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago (4 children)

It just goes to show how far ahead of the cultural curve comic book authors/artists can be.

I'm waiting for Alan Moore's Promethea to gain traction, but that'll mean the majority of people are ready go to movies that speculate on how to go about becoming enlightened...so I'm not holding my breath.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago (3 children)

No Batman paved the way for superhero movies! No Avengers paved the way for superhero movies! No Christopher Reeve as Superman paved the way for superhero movies!

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