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Ikey Doherty vs Omarchy: Why He’s Building Barney Instead of Another Distro (itsfoss.com)
submitted 1 month ago by to c/linux@lemmy.ml
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Ikey Doherty, the creator of Solus and AerynOS, is back with Barney, a Rust tool that builds Linux distros from source. So that you can easily create your own Omarchy.

In a video posted on YouTube, the creator of Solus and AerynOS called the money behind DHH's distro absurd and promised to do it better with nothing. His answer is Barney, a Rust-based tool for building Linux distros from source.

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[–] 44 points 1 month ago (29 children)

Why even mention the nazi distro at all?

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  • [–] 33 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Nazi vibe coded distro

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  • [–] [S] 18 points 1 month ago* (2 children)

    It's worth mentioning something in order to point out why it's bad? It's in the news right now and people are currently discussing it, and it's not like someone is going to read this article and be more likely to go support it

    This article is saying that Omarchy isn't doing anything that novel or special, and that this developer is trying to create a tool that will allow anyone to do the same thing without millions of dollars of funding

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    Omarchy has been put in my face already regardless of my not needing to hear about it, and given the echo magnification structure of our media system, that horse has left the barn. If I have to hear about it, I want the majority of times I hear about it to be echoing what a piece of shit it and its creator are.

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  • [+] -7 points 1 month ago (21 children)

    The nazi bar problem I understand, but why is using open source provided by a nazi wrong?

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  • [–] 16 points 1 month ago

    I don't particularly care in the abstract but this particular piece of software is also technically awful vibecoded slop. And DHH isn't a random nazi, but a nazi with a platform provided by the popularity of his slopware.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    One does not simply give them shitters mindshare. Tech is political, never believe otherwise.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    Of course, that's why I go open source, that's what brought me here to Lemmy.

    Maybe I am wrong to mix music into it, although you might be able to pick up the glove in that aspect too: Morrissey is a narcissistic/racist asshole, yet his music brings me joy. Am I a bad person for that? Should I stop listening to him? I've never really bought an album, and I don't listen to interviews, but his music. Wouldn't having a nazi OS be the same (mind you not this one, but something without the slop)? Using Temple OS would make me weird, sure, but would that mean I am platforming the mentally deranged?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (3 children)

    There's no ethical consumption under Capitalism. I get it, too. It could be easily said that this very Internet that's connecting us has some Nazi fingerprint since the DARPA.

    Your bootleged tracks won't make a penny to Morrissey nor bring more awareness to him. However, with FOSS, we have a choice. Don't hatch this serpent's egg

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    I can see how propogating their product would intensify their reach, but the problem I am having is that I cannot differentiate a good app based on ideology.

    Now that I come to think of it, I might not run into that problem. Maybe nazis cannot make wholesome code, because they are not wholesome themselves. That would make my point moot. Thank you for the gentle comment.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

    You want to stay in Capitalism and I have other ideas. You think there is merit in Technocratism, I think that's just another facade, together with Liberalism, to Fascism. May we never have to clash about this in the future.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    No need to throw punches, comrade.

    If you feel you wanna toe my line, we can get into the merits and blind spots of positivism, but please try to see me arguing in good faith about something I either don't understand or find questionable.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    Would you trust to install an operating system, that was provided by actual Nazi Germany? Would you install or recommend ANY distribution you don't trust to someone else?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    I wouldn't want to install anything unvetted. But doesn't open source mean it's fully transparent? So if the system had tracking and whatnot (which regimes usually like), I wouldn't install it.

    If it's a good fit and there is no fallout for me downloading it (I'm not funding them, not giving them info), I think there is no moral problem with me downloading the software.

    In this specific case I guess it's moot, cuz it's full of slop, but this is the same vein as pop culture consumption: do I hate myself for liking Michael Jackson's and Morrissey's music? Should I not pirate it, if it brings me joy? Am I a bad person for liking that music?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    Being Open Source doesn't solve the issue here. First, as you say yourself, you even do not trust a project that is Open Source because of Ai slop. And you cannot verify every line of code with every update on every application. Do you understand every security issue by just looking at it? Even if you would, which is impossible, do you build everything from source? No normal people does that (sorry Gentoo users, this sentence was just for you guys :D).

    Omarchy is a good example of that we should not trust everything, just because it is Open Source. I personally would have moral problems AND fear of incompetence and intentional malware. The actual software, the operating system itself, would have been very nice if there were not these trust issues.

    I would say its not the same as liking pop culture. That comparison doesn't hold up, because listening to music does not execute stuff on your system, you do not depend on it, and there is no trust issue here involved. As for the moral problem of liking something, where the creator is a bad person, well that is something you can do in art. I personally can differentiate from media consumption and its creator, which is not possible with operating systems and software.

    But if we start talking about media or even food, that is all a different thing and would just distract us from our original topic.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    The reason I brought up the comparison is because I think it at least tangentially relates to ethical software usage as well.

    I came to a similar conclusion from another comment: nazis are not wholesome people, so they cannot produce wholesome code (I guess music doesn't need wholesomeness to hit deep). This is my practical stance on the matter. Nazis have not produced a good enough operating system for me to switch to it.

    But going back to nitpick, I don't have a blink of understanding about machine languages (or coding in general for that), but I do have trust in the community, and the community has freaks that speak machine language and can inform me about any hidden malware. But I guess by now I'm just advocating for the devil. Thanks for engaging, it did provide extra gradients in my view.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I also have to trust the community in order to trust the system. But no community can help you, if the maintainers doesn't do their job well, after you got pawned. There are lot of Open Source projects and operating systems I do not trust.

    And yes I also get what you were saying with the media comparison, I did not try to invalidate your personal opinion by claiming the comparison wasn't valid. I understand you were trying to make a point by that. I just didn't want to go too far away from the topic, as this happens too often. So my apologies for the tone it may had (not sure how to put this into words). Also thanks for staying productive in the discussions, with political stuff involved this gets heated up very quickly.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    apologies for the tone it may had

    Right back at ya. But for what it's worth, I didn't feel any animosity coming from you, and most of the answers have been pretty tame compared to the weight of the topic.

    I do understand now why I shouldn't trust my data to a bad-faith player. I know where my misunderstanding stems from and appreciate all the input I got from this community. Another big thanks for keeping things on track (re:music).

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    what happens when the next update is the one that puts spyware in it and hands it directly to big brother?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (5 children)

    If it's open source, I'd read about the nazi breaking his own code and switch systems.

    I mean this is all just philosophy right now, cuz I'm super happy with my instance of Endeavour, and to my best knowledge there are no nazis involved. But that being said, I still don't understand why I shouldn't use a good product just because the producer's values are askewed. I guess there is an argument to be made that it might affect their work, but if it doesn't, what's the harm?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (4 children)

    Well he's already broken it. 🤷

    Still got those millions. Funny that

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (3 children)

    Yeah, but in that case what keeps me away is that an asshole broke their system.

    As it stands, my argument is about bad people writing good code. That is definitely not the case here, so I am sorry if I robbed anyone's time.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    no, you're making a salient argument. I don't want to dump a book length (/s) idea I've had brewing in my head about this, so we can have a little chat. I'll just throw the broadest strokes to you.

    1. What do you do with unethical scientific advances? Eg : Data on human limits on heat/cold/sleep deprivation obtained through torture? Can you use them in ethical projects after?
    2. How does a culture perpetuate? What are permanently completed projects? If an untrustworthy party is working on a project that for now seems fair, can you rely on it while its still being worked on and have faith that you can use that to go forward and build new things without getting stabbed in the back after?
    3. Curation. By choosing something curated by a "bad person ^TM^" you are not giving opportunities of propagation to a project maintained and created by a "good person ^TM^".
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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Tough questions.

    1. I can only think of extreme cases, so I'd be really grasping in the dark. My thoughts went towards euthanasia and other health and safety standards, but definitely weak legs on this side of the argument. Would you define the moon race as something positive? Because that seems to be based on the wrong things.
    2. Cultures aren't meant to last forever? Or from another end of it, they morph into each and borrow and steal. Maybe I'm skirting that first question. No permanently completed projects, because projects in use need to be maintained. I'd say it's probably a bad idea to start a project with knowing the other one can rob you of your time.
    3. We're all looking for good curators, but most of us don't know it. If we don't give attention to the 'bad ones', will the 'good ones' prosper? Doesn't the attention the bad one gets bring light to something that will inspire new good ones to act?

    That last part felt a bit unhinged. The heat might be getting to me. Thanks for the thoughts, I tried to leave out the nazi programmer aspect of it all in my reply. I can lean into it for some devil's advocacy, but I'm pretty sure that's not why we're here.

    There's definitely useless data, but information in itself is mostly harmless. Maybe it makes sense working together with someone bad until you have enoughgood people around to branch off and create a well-working, clean version of your product. I am totally in the dark here, the last time I did anything programming related was making a batch file in windows 20 years ago.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    I am totally in the dark here, the last time I did anything programming related was making a batch file in windows 20 years ago.

    It's a good thing we're looking at this from a more "why this tool not other tool" aspect then.

    To de-abstractify the concepts a little:

    1. There are horrible data sources from things like unit 731 or the holocaust, and most of the time, scientists reject using them for various reasons, but the ethics of using that data is murky. A similar idea enters the picture here. Yeah, DHH et al aren't killing people, but what about when the Omarchy foundation starts being the top sponsor of White Pride Worldwide?
    2. basically, nothing is permanently done. It always needs maintenance and updates, because entropy exists. Washing Machines, Guitars, homes, clothes, software, etc. Human culture too. You may have a recording, but to keep the "culture" alive, it needs to be played by someone and listened to someone. The issue with fascist open source is that the people keeping the "culture" alive are fascists, so one is participating in their perpetuation of their works, regardless of if the tools themselves are fascist or not.
    3. We are, unwillingly, perpetuating in the public visibility of Omarchy by discussing it. If we install Omarchy and talk about how we're pleased with it, etc , we are helping others get visibility of Omarchy when we are behaving as OS curators. We are not perpetuating every other operating system that exists. The public awareness of a zillion others disappears, where we could be promoting it.

    To expand on the last point : Compared to human attention, human creations might as well be infinite. Curation is how we try to limit what we are exposed to, since we can't start from A and walk our way to Z for everything.

    I guess it wasn't that long.

    I look forward to your response, ephemeral associate. Stay safe and stay sane out there.

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    • [–] 24 points 1 month ago (10 children)

    Guys, just use nix, please it's everything you say you want in a OS...

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  • [–] 30 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    In the context of Omarchy, the salient desire is to avoid affiliation with fascists. Which NixOS hasn’t exactly excelled at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NixOS#Community_controversy

    (I say this as someone whose main laptop, desktop, and homelab are all NixOS.)

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  • [–] 15 points 1 month ago

    Since Nix have had some controversy (tldr), I'm just adding the Gnu Guix distro, as an (FOSS) alternative to Nix.

    Both are 'declarative' systems that are build/configured from a configuration file - amongst other goodness.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    But what I want is to distromog on nixcels!

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    I remember someone here saying just recently that they used pacstrap on a live nixos system to install arch over it without a usb, which seems like the ultimate way to distromog nixcels

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    • [–] 22 points 1 month ago*

    I don't get why this is upvoted. Can we just forget that nightmare that Omarchy is? And ignore attempts to bring it back up? Yes 10 for million you can buy a lot of ads, so we'll have to tolerate some noise for a while, but it shouldn't last long.

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    [–] 19 points 1 month ago

    We wanted a year of Linux desktop - there it is, an army of tech bros going through "baby's first rice" arc in the most annoying way possible.

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    [–] 8 points 1 month ago

    Ikey is abandoning project faster than I change my underwear

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    [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    Barney the distro builder tool sounds interesting. I mean I could just use Archlinux and build my distro this way. Not sure how Barney works, as the repositories need to be supported and then this becomes a distro, not a distro builder tool. I still have to read about this tool to understand. This actually has nothing to do with Omarchy and the popularity of the distro is used to market his own tool in the blog post.

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    [–] 1 point 1 month ago*

    Barney. Is its mascot a purple dinosaur that everyone over the age of five hates with a passion? Because that's the association the name calls up for me, and it makes me dislike the project just on general principles.

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