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this post was submitted on 30 Nov 2023
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wtf unless convicted by laws claims are only claims
A shock revelation, indeed.
Thomas Partey is such scum. I hate that he is part of my club. The fact that there's two more women who have now come forward... awful, awful man.
I want him gone. Regardless of if he did or not the noise is distracting and more often than not there isn't smoke without fire. The PL needs to overhaul their rules with clubs to allow for immediate removals and unregistered of players to discourage clubs from using them.
What if hes innocent?
I'm surprised they go as far as to specify it's a premier league manager; if it's investigations from the 90s by the police that implies they've been in England a long time which really narrows down who it could be.
I heard it was a certain West Ham owner...
David Sullivan was pictured coming out of a London bizzy station a few months back, around the time this story first broke.
The use of the phrase "boss" is intentionally vague as it suggests to the casual reader that it is actually a manager/coach that is responsible. Probably legal-driven slight of hand at work
Yes, because they have contracts which require specific performance, until proven guilty.
No they don't? You can suspend players after an accusation, like United did with Greenwood. Especially if 5 people are making an accusation with the police investigating.
A contract doesn't mean teams are forced to pay players.
Gylifi, who was very important the previous season, never played for Everton again and had his contract run down after the “31 year old international” was arrested. And yet you could say that the indictment was because of this as they lost £45 mill without being able to get some of it back like they did with players like Iwobi later on. And the fact they were able to vanish a key player, who you wouldn’t think of as a vile sort, without once saying his name outright, and yet Greenwood is seen as a sympathetic figure for offences that were made very public, is a very courageous move.
wtf ever happen to the thomas partey's case? like it has been a year plus and the investigation is still on going ? what the fuck are they doing? at least give us an update
They never got enough evidence to be able to charge him. It’s still technically under investigation and it’ll never be officially “dropped” but I think it’s all but over at this point.
In footballing terms only, that's the part I have trouble with. I think he probably did it because I believe the women, and I really want him out of the club, but I'm never sure what a club should do in these situations. If they suspended him the second the accusations came forward, he would have been out of the club for a year and a half now with no end in sight. If the investigation is never dropped, but the police don't have enough evidence to charge or drop (at this point), is his career over? Should it be the same for just some random guy that works at a Tesco in Mansfield? He's not allowed to work until the investigation is dropped?
Yeah in the most cynical way. The whole thing is incredibly stupid. Thats why the club were right to do it the way they did. Just ignore it until they have no choice.
Wasn't it a question of jurisdiction or extradition from Spain?
Updating the public is irrelevant. The accused, the victim and just judicial system don’t care if the general public feel uninformed on progress and nor should they
This is incorrect. One of the most quoted phrases in case law goes something like "Justice must not only be done, but must also be seen to be done." (Rex v Sussex Justices)
The judicial system has a duty not only to be just, but also to demonstrate to the public at large that it is being just. That's why even if no wrongdoing has occurred, if there's a way people might think it has occurred, the justice system has failed.
Interesting quote didn’t know that, thanks.
I think it overestimates the powers of the justice system. You can’t prevent someone posting something online and it going viral, surely?
How would it stop people thinking something?
Who’s going to find an amusing way that is legally sound to tell us all who the people are, player likes to “party”, but who’s the boss?
who's player X? it sounds like partey but it seems to imply the case is more recent than his?
Based on the given timelines, it could be him. Arrested / initially reported in July 2022 and then summoned again for questioning in February 2023.
Very difficult one. I mean, people should have the right to defend themselves. Suspending a player for an abuse allegation makes them look guilty in the eyes of the public, and there's little way back for them.
Antony is an example. I believe two of the charges have been dropped, and the third is potentially looking like it should be. Yet he's still treated as a violent rapist by fans.
Don't take this as me defending a United player because I'm a United fan. If you offered me £20m for Antony today, I'd sell him. I think he's awful.
I don't know what the answer is here. I appreciate not enough is done to support victims of such attacks, and the courts are so bad at dealing with them. But the alternative where we must simply believe an accuser without question doesn't seem right either.
I'm not sure we'll ever be able to resolve the issue with sex crime allegations. Not many will provide evidence on a plate like Greenwood.
Antony is an example. I believe two of the charges have been dropped, and the third is potentially looking like it should be. Yet he's still treated as a violent rapist by fans.
Did you read the article? It clearly shows that when players don't face consequences for reports of abuse this is what happens. They can bully or coerce victims to retract, run PR campaigns against accusers etc.
Also there is no suggestion that the first charge that came out against Antony is about to be scuppered.
Antonys wasnt even anything sexual was it? People still clump him in with greenwood
And you absolutely do get pleople trying to take advantage of players and blackmail them or just use them for clout. Remember the allegations against Neymar?
It's a very difficult issue to resolve.
Going off on a tangent, probably. But I'm all for punishing anybody regardless of status if they're guilty as long as the women who falsely accuse get equally punished.
some abuse claim could be made up/false as well?
I mean we can’t have it both ways. Footballers can be absolute wankers and treat people badly. 100%. But they are also easy targets. Do we want to live in a world whereby at best your career is halted and worst destroyed by unproven allegations?
I know there are blurred lines. The Greenwood situation for example. Whereby you have some pretty damning things that are made public, and then it’s a bit of a moral/PR conundrum.
For me though, innocent until proven guilty. Or we decent into chaos.
Innocent until proven guilty means that you don’t get locked up for life without proving that you committed a crime in court. It doesn’t mean you get to be on TV every weekend.
OK, so when you get investigated for something, that you are then not guilty for, do you get all of the losses back? Reputational damage back? You have to draw the line somewhere and I think the law is a sensible place. If you are sidelined you are by extension assumed guilty and that is extraordinarily damaging. It's not right for those who are not guilty.
No you or I would end up in a massive hole financially most likely. But they will be fine because they’re incredibly wealthy and despite what everyone says the almost immediately find a club to take them.
That’s absurd.
It’s the truth?
The problem with innocent until proven guilty is that in practice you're letting off most perpetrators scot free. How can someone possibly prove something was not consensual? Recordings maybe, but that's only possible if they know it'll happen beforehand. There's no easy answer that doesn't lead to some very bad outcomes.
I don’t think it’s that simple.
I think 3.2% of sexual assault cases lead to a conviction.
The way the law works, you only need to prove reasonable doubt which is incredible easy when consent is a concept.
They estimated 85,000 women a year are raped or sexually assaulted. 2022 there were 2,223 charges of rape.
There does seem to be a priority to protect innocent men against potentially malicious allegations, over prosecuting rapists and reducing the number of women being raped.
If you remove or erode the social unacceptability of rape and sexual assault, that’s also incredible detrimental.
To me, it does seem more likely a women isn’t lying than is & knowing that it’s hard to prove, I do still think there needs to be some action.
I’d like to see a campaign or something by the league. Creating a bit of a dialogue about sexual assault.
It’s why I think a stronger female presence in the game is so important. We need more women’s voices in the game
This is a brilliant response. I definitely understand the point. But my point isn't about protecting men. It's the fact that you are automatically guilty by extension if you disappear from sight the second an allegation comes in.
I appeciate it looks my point is being black and white: rape or malicious accusation. But I definitely accept there is a middle ground whereby someone may not know if they have been assaulted or not, and should be encouraged to report something, but again, in my mind, if we are to be widening the debate around assault and encouraging people to (correctly) come forward even if not sure, this strengthens the need to allow the law to handle it, not the public kangaroo court of social justice. The second someone is taken out of the limelight for this they are guilty, irrespective of the legal side of it. People stand to lose a lot when completely innocent.
I know what you mean in teams of the statistics and don't refute the facts at all and agree with regarding the point about it being more likely that a woman isn't lying than is, but for me, that's still not grounds to essentially make anyone alleged against guilty by extension. It's just not OK.
The crux of the issue in handling sexual assault allegations, especially among high-profile individuals, is our societal stance on due process.
We face a clear choice: either we fully uphold the principles of due process, including the presumption of innocence, or we do not.
In cases where due process is disregarded, accused individuals are left in a precarious position. Even if legally cleared, their reputations often remain tarnished.
Public opinion, questioning the legal verdict, effectively brands them as guilty indefinitely. This creates a troubling scenario where once accused, they are perceived as forever guilty, with no clear path to restore their reputation.
I really wish people that cared about these kinds of things would do the bare minimum research to find out where these numbers come from.
It's not 3.2% of sexual assault cases. It's 3.2% of claims from a survey. The majority of them never even go to the police with it. It's 3.2% of claims from a survey lead to a conviction.
There is no priority to protect innocent men. There's a priority to believe women and chastise the men. Just look at this very sub, every single person is frothing at the mouth to attack any man with an accusation against him, no matter how little evidence there is. No one is ever allowed the say the obvious that footballers would be an easy target for false claims. Yet we're allowed to sit here and talk mad shit about the person they make claims about. "Victim blaming" is a term ONLY used against the accuser, when in reality if it's a false claim, the victim is the accused, yet we never see anyone, including mods on this subreddit shut down harmful discussion when the guy is being torn to shreds from claims alone.
You can say about how hard it is to prove all you want but that's a good thing. A person shouldn't be able to send you to jail and destroy your life with 0 evidence. Even though we see that plenty of men have gone to jail on false claims already.
The if player X is the 'Premier League footballer, arrested in North London' that everyone is aware of then surely there's enough evidence to charge him? This article states there were witnesses! How has he not been charged yet?!
Different player, he is no longer under investigation.
Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. We cannot have a situation where mere allegations can get someone suspended from their careers. We cannot have trials by media.
The article mentions comparisons to the overarching policies the NFL and MLB have that allow the bodies to investigate regardless of whether the case has gone through the justice system. Is there something in UK law that would prevent the FA/PL from putting something like that into place? While I'm in no ways claiming that those policies are anywhere close to the effectiveness needed (look at the Texans and Deshaun Watson), it's kind of crazy that a woman tried to report an assault to the FA and they sent her their guidelines...which apply to coaching minors, not reporting sexual violence.
I personally think the FA should have a policy against this. Cases like this bring the whole game into disrepute and it is on the official bodies to ensure propriety.
If the police are investigating a player, he or she should not be allowed to play until they are cleared. Or an independent body appointed by the FA clears them of playing.
I know some people believe that this will create a weekly parade of women accusing players of rape to win at fantasy football but like the leagues in the US show, there will still be more abusers going unpunished than those accused falsely.
Ok. Lets do that everywhere then. Scaffolders can't scaffold if they're investigated (not charged), pumbers can't plum, teachers can't teach etc etc.
This section of the public honestly. Not to mention, these men have incredible celebrity status, wealth and attention thrust on them at a young age and will be targeted. They even have classes on it at that level, teaching them how to protect themselves. That's not saying it isn't true in some cases, but that's where the law comes in.
But if theres no charge then they shouldn't be stopped from doing their jobs! Even then the Mendy case shows us it can be wrong.
This thread needs a dishonorable mention of Boateng, who assaulted and abused his gf. The media went on a campaign saying she was lying, she was stalked and harassed and eventually ended up taking her own life.
It's absolutely mental that Bayern Munich even remotely considered letting him back in the squad and that it took considerable pressure to block it from the fans.
Doesn’t Kingsley Coman have a domestic violence charge? Not surprising that Bayern would let Boateng back in lol
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