"Norm thats antisemitic" - chatter whizzing by at 100kmph (UPDATE: chatter in question is literally USMC personnel) (video.twimg.com)

submitted 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) by splendidsadiks@hexbear.net to c/slop@hexbear.net

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I wasn't joking when I said I don't read any of the rules or guidelines on these sites but this is definitely slop since it's twitch right?

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[-] dead@hexbear.net 16 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I wasn't joking when I said I don't read any of the rules or guidelines on these sites but this is definitely slop since it's twitch right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXiTR9tSvUk

The name slop was a bad choice because slop is an ambiguous term and people have started using the word slop to describe every thing in existence. When the_dunk_tank was being renamed, I remember some of the suggestions were variations of "the_hog_trough". I liked this name because "hog" is a meme term for like maga chuds going wild. Also, ironically, Hasan had a segment called "hog watch" where he would react to right wing media.

For some reason, hexbear decided to choose the name slop right at the same time that the "slop" meme was coming into vogue. So then suddenly the word "slop" just means "everything I don't like", rather than "reactionaries being wild". The concept of "slop" is ever expanding. Every day, I see new categories of things being posted into the slop comm, from news articles to pictures of food.

spoiler

On a tangent, right wingers have been using the term "goyslop" for like 10 years, while "slop" has been in vogue for like 2 years. "Goyslop" is a antisemitic conspiracy theory that jewish people are tricking non-jewish people into eating low quality food, or low quality other consumable. It's hard to say that this is definitively the reason that "slop" became popular now, but other far right terms have entered mainstream such as "alpha male" and "chad".

The slop side bar says "For posting all the anonymous reactionary bullshit that you can't post anywhere else." What is chapotraphouse comm? Chapo Trap House is a podcast about discussing US politics and geopolitics from a left wing perspective. Hasan is friends in real life with the people who make Chapo Trap House. Both Norm and Hasan have on Chapo Trap House. The place to post a video where previous Chapo Trap House guests discuss politics pertaining to anti-Zionism would be the Chapo Trap House comm.

However, I don't think certain posts need to be confined to a certain comm but the slop comm is expanding everyday because some people think "slop" means "every bad thing" and production rate of bad things is accelerating every day. Before long, slop could become hexbear's largest comm.

[-] mathemachristian@hexbear.net 10 points 1 day ago

This is not the "mod opinion" but my own.

I liked this name because "hog" is a meme term for like maga chuds going wild.

I really dislike this name because it's speciesist. Hogs are caring, loving, social animals.

That said, at the time there were huge struggle sessions with the mod and userbase at eachothers throat. At the end people just wanted their "slop" and be over with it. Also "slop" had been in use on hexbear far before the more common usage now, it was even used positively occasionally, in the "comfy" sense of watching something that doesn't take a lot of effort to produce or consume can be a good way to destress. A bit like "guilty pleasure" or how not every meal has to be some gourmet, healthy affair, but can just be some deep-frozen "slop" that warms the belly and tastes good.

The slop side bar says "For posting all the anonymous reactionary bullshit that you can't post anywhere else."

slop is at it's core a containment comm. A lot of people want to be able to filter reactionary stuff, they see enough of it on the internet, they want to be able to relax on hexbear and seeing @magaChudNo273482723's post of the same joke everyone already heard a billion times is antithetical to that. However a lot of people also want to share these stupid takes and have a place where they can just rag on these people and see that there are others who share in their outrage or sadness or whatever. slop is the compromise, the former group can block the comm and filter it, the latter group has a place here where they can just vent their feelings. That's what is meant by posting "reactionary's bullshit" that isn't allowed "anywhere else".

The "anything you want to post" comm is !main@hexbear.net. So if it doesn't fit any particular comm or someone just wants to post and not have to decipher which comms are exactly for what it can go there. Unless it's some reactionary bullshit of course, then it must be posted here.

However, I don't think certain posts need to be confined to a certain comm but the slop comm is expanding everyday because some people think "slop" means "every bad thing" and production rate of bad things is accelerating every day. Before long, slop could become hexbear's largest comm.

I hope that doesn't happen to be honest, if the site is subsumed by "slop" and all we have left is outrage and anger that would be a sad thing. But I don't think that is an actual danger to the site. And I don't wanna remove posts just because they aren't an exact fit or would be better in some other comm, people shouldn't have to go through a list of different types of the same fucking joke before knowing where to post (reddit link: https://www.reddit.com/r/dontdeadopeninside/wiki/post_types/).

[-] Maturin@hexbear.net 13 points 1 day ago

I preferred just calling it “the trough” because, in that situation, we were the hogs and this was our place to indulgently feast on all the garbage that was probably not good for us and we should go back to rooting for acorns.

[-] dead@hexbear.net 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Most people don't post into the slop comm thinking it's a containment. They think "I dislike this thing and I want to humiliate it by labeling it slop".

It does not feel like "slop" is a containment comm when it's the 3rd largest comm and growing. It feels like slop is trying to steal the character of chapotraphouse.

The characteristics of Chapo Trap House is a combination of comedy, pop culture, US politics, and US foreign policy. Chapo also had a weekly segment where they would read liberal newspaper opeds and criticize the liberalism.

Marx and Lenin have a considerable amount of writing where they criticize their liberal opponents. When Lenin criticized Kautsky or Bernstein, was it considered slop? No, of course not. In a certain sense, the purpose of left theory is to criticize contradictions and ultimately resolve the contradictions.

I do not mean that more content on hexbear is becoming "slop". I mean that posts which could better fit into other comms are being placed into slop.

We live in a world of contradictions, there are many opposing forces in conflict. The contradictions make people feel uncomfortable and people label those contradictions as slop, but not every contradiction needs to discussed in a containment space.

I agree with your principle of having this comm being a "containment". Then we have to ask, what is being contained? Is the purpose of the slop comm to contain every contradiction? Certainly not, because most of the real world is made up of contradictions.

I would propose that what is contained in a containment comm is the most fringe and socially unacceptable subjects. Things that one would be ashamed to say in public. For example, unhinged social media comments.

The purpose of a containment is to shrink, not grow, and yet slop continues to grow.

Norm Finkelstein is one of the most influential academics of our time. I DO think that Norm should be criticized for his problematic takes. However, I don't think Finkelstein is considered to be slop. I would not be ashamed to speak about Norm Finkelstein in a public space.

What I am saying is that the parameters of slop is too broad.

[-] mathemachristian@hexbear.net 2 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago)

There has been a bit of evolution as you pointed out in your "history of slop" post. It was created specifically for "dunking on chuds", hence "The dunk tank", it wasn't meant as a containment comm at all. However not having to look at reactionary takes was one of the sticking points that came out during the struggle session for me and that's kind of what it evolved to.

One of the ways this could be handled is a "back to the roots" style downsizing, we only post reactionaries airing their ass and enforce rule 1. However then the problem becomes once again where to draw the line. This is certainly a reactionary take, however it probably doesn't need to be "contained" and filtered out for other people, this however likely would fit the type of post that would fit the comm, but what's a quantifiable difference between them that makes the former a bad fit for the comm. Or rather what makes the latter a good fit might be the more salient question?

I can see your point that if we let it evolve to whatever people nowadays associate with "slop" it might become the "low-effort", "just post" comm which wouldn't be helpful for people trying to filter reactionary takes either. Sadly I can't find a good way to easily see posts over time for a comm which could be a good metric to see if the comm is getting too large. Do you think this is a big enough issue to address with the wider community? Likely the site since we'd want to get people who want to filter /c/slop involved, though I don't even know if there a lot of people on hexbear who block /c/slop.

Removing posts is not a nice thing to do so I want to be able to communicate very clearly why a post had to be removed, and since we can't expect a "move" feature on lemmy in the near future this would be the only tool we have at our disposal. I suppose we could crosspost to a more appropriate comm before removing, but that's not really an appropriate way to handle that either I feel like.

[-] HexReplyBot@hexbear.net 2 points 1 day ago

A Reddit link was detected in your comment. Here are links to the same location on alternative frontends that protect your privacy.

[-] splendidsadiks@hexbear.net 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Bastard tricked me into reading the sidebar, good summary. Then it's slop because they don't tell people how to take action or where they really stand.

Usually it's just people defending charity from lunatics calling it terrorism. Marching around does not count. Cargo cult shit

[-] dead@hexbear.net 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Here's the history of this comm.

~14 years ago - There's a subreddit called "r/shitliberalssay". It's a communist subreddit to criticize things that liberals say on social media. It still exists today and it mostly has social media screenshots.

~10 years ago - Chapo Trap House podcast was formed

~6 years ago - r/chapotraphouse was banned and hexbear was formed. A user asked for a comm called "ShitReactionariesSay" and the mod created a comm called the_dunk_tank. I think this means the comm was intended to replicated the functionality of r/shitliberalssays. I believe the word dunk was chosen because many hexbears came from twitter where dunk mean to humiliate, in reference to basketball dunking

~2 years ago - There was an argument about whether screenshots of lemmy users from other instances were allowed to be posted in the_dunk_tank. It was called "Rule 8", you'll notice that slop only has 7 rules. Then "the_dredge_tank" was created to allow users to continue mocking screenshots of other lemmy instances.

<2 years ago - The Dunk Tank and The Dredge Tank were closed because the concept of the a "dunk tank" originates from racist Jim Crow era. Though I think many people interpreted the name as the basketball term "dunk". In place of these comms, two new comms formed: "gossip" and "slop".

9 months ago - The gossip comm is shut down and considered to be merged into the slop comm.

With that history in mind, I think this comm should resemble the content of /r/shitliberalssay, that is criticizing screenshots of people saying anti-communist things on social media. I don't that subreddit even allows posts that aren't images.

[-] splendidsadiks@hexbear.net 7 points 1 day ago

The Dunk Tank and The Dredge Tank were closed because the concept of the a "dunk tank" originates from racist Jim Crow era. Though I think many people interpreted the name as the basketball term "dunk". In place of these comms, two new comms formed: "gossip" and "slop".

Oh I kinda remember that man I block a lotta shit out

[-] Hermes@hexbear.net 4 points 1 day ago

I don't that subreddit even allows posts that aren't images.

This is due to "anti-brigading" reddit "rules" AFAIK, we are not bound by the same constraints. Screenshots do make browsing much nicer though, so I wouldn't mind requiring them with the option to post links.

[-] sleeplessone@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 day ago

When the_dunk_tank was being renamed, I remember some of the suggestions were variations of “the_hog_trough”. I liked this name because “hog” is a meme term for like maga chuds going wild.

After the_dunk_tank was removed for the racist origin of its name, there was another comm called the_dredge_tank that was used for awhile. I recall Ulysses had a running bit about the Drej from Titan A.E. that he would always post in the comments. The comm got scrapped during the huge struggle session that coincided with the second coming of TC69.

[-] HexReplyBot@hexbear.net 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:

[-] splendidsadiks@hexbear.net 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Lmao, the badempanada cyberstalking brigade has their uses, here is the source of the quote in my title:

[-] splendidsadiks@hexbear.net 5 points 1 day ago

Liberal: "It's christian zionism!!!"

Liberal: "No!!! It's jewish supremacy!!!"

Samir Amin:

[-] splendidsadiks@hexbear.net 4 points 1 day ago

Explain the joke

Norm and Hasan are both political entertainers who earn a living by coming up with new narratives even when a more historical view would be simpler and more effective. Capital needs colonialism to slice up the world in order to create the imperial structure, but this is an unwieldy tool that can backfire, leading to braindead Americans exclaiming that they are being exploited by Israel. Not exactly sure what their plan is to live without the petrodollar. Maybe it has something to do with getting a chungus job like they're discussing here. Actually, who cares? If you see this, what books have you been reading lately?

[-] infuziSporg@hexbear.net 2 points 1 day ago

"Model minority" explains it pretty adequately and still leaves room for complexity.

[-] splendidsadiks@hexbear.net 1 points 1 day ago

I think that could neatly summarize their relationship to surplus populations

[-] purpleworm@hexbear.net 2 points 1 day ago

surplus populations

[-] splendidsadiks@hexbear.net 1 points 1 day ago

Are you serious

[-] purpleworm@hexbear.net 6 points 1 day ago

I've only heard the term in reference to malthusianism, e.g. "if they're going die, they'd better hurry up and do it, and decrease the surplus population"

[-] sleeplessone@lemmy.ml 2 points 5 hours ago

I got confused by this and ended up looking it up and found this.

In Africa, ILO estimates imply that the vast majority of workers in the world are “informal workers”, groups hustling to get by.

Is this a temporary thing? For Marx, surplus populations—what he termed the “industrial reserve army”—were a necessary component of capitalism, used to discipline the working class, depress wages, and maintain capitalist control. He feared that these surplus groups, existing outside the circuits of production, could be more susceptible to reactionary forces than to revolutionary ones. But overall, as he saw capitalism developed, he thought that it was the working class – not surplus populations – who had a world to win. Today, of course, most of Marx’s industrial proleteriat toils away in factories in Vietnam, Bangladesh and China. The problem however is that while the majority of workers in manufacturing are in the global south, the majority of workers in the world are not industrial workers. There exists what the late Mike Davis called the “outcast proletariat”, estimated to be around 1.5 Billion who are locked out of formal work. This isnt a temporary reserve army, but a permanent in our planet of slums.

[...]

Political economists of the 19th century, like Malthus, feared that surplus populations could overwhelm the “respectable classes” and destabilise bourgeois society. Yet, they believed that as long as capital accumulated, these groups could be absorbed or at least pacified. Even socialists like Marx and Gramsci viewed mass unemployment and reactionary movements as temporary disruptions rather than permanent features. At the end of the day, the working class would unite and usher in an era of communism.

That optimism of working class triumph is now in crisis. In places like Haiti and Sudan, the state is disintegrating before our eyes. Paramilitaries—once non-state actors operating in the shadows—now openly challenge and, in some cases, supplant state authority. The “deterritorialization” of state violence, where control fragments into multiple competing forces, signals a breakdown in the state’s monopoly on violence. These were forces made up of surplus populations who were used by ruling elites to police other surplus populations. Now they want power themselves, and they have taken over entire cities.

Even in the Global North, the colonial boomerang has returned. The tools of control once used to manage colonial subjects are now being repurposed domestically. Militarised police forces, drones , surveillance systems, and carceral institutions don’t just target migrants, they target surplus populations within Western borders—immigrants, racial minorities, the surplus poor—mirroring colonial forms of governance.

[-] purpleworm@hexbear.net 2 points 5 hours ago

Thanks, that's an interesting connection

[-] sleeplessone@lemmy.ml 1 points 4 hours ago

FWIW, the user you responded to had made a vaguepost referencing this thread. It seems splendidsadiks was passive-aggressively nudging you and other Hexbears into educating yourselves. While not the best way to do it, I get the impression splendidsadiks is frustrated from having tried to educate the userbase about anti-colonial theory over however much time and many accounts that was. Looking up maldevelopment was a good idea.

[-] purpleworm@hexbear.net 1 points 2 hours ago

Good fucking lord it's annoying to be subtweeted about maldevelopment from someone so ridiculously immature and antisocial. If you're correct that this person was "nudging me to educate myself" by vagueposting instead of actually responding, all I can say in reply to them is: Jesus Christ, grow the fuck up and just talk to me like a human being instead of making weird insinuations and not actually saying anything to me directly. There are a ton of people I'd like to see banned from this fucking site but I literally just asked them a question. I have no idea what the ban was actually for and I certainly didn't report them (why would I?)

I would love to congratulate them on reading more Marx than me, but I fear their reading won't do them any good when they communicate like a petulant middle schooler.

I'm saying this to you of course because they are banned and I really think we shouldn't be doing this smol bean routine with such absurd antisociality.

[-] splendidsadiks@hexbear.net 1 points 1 day ago

I can't take it anymore

[-] splendidsadiks@hexbear.net 1 points 1 day ago

Okay so you know how there is a magical zionism forcefield that causes armenian pahlavist iranian taiwanese japanese and south korean etcetera diaspora to hate black people and american indians