So many people in this thread seem to think everyone should have the exact same body type or else the sport isn’t “fair”. I played rugby in my school in PE against players who play in super league now (top European rugby league division). They were physically stronger and in better shape than everyone else. We were much more in risk of being injured by them than anyone else. However isn’t that sport? They shouldn’t have been forced to not play to account for smaller less skilled players.
this post was submitted on 21 Nov 2023
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Lmaoooo yeah. A real “complex” issue
A lot of people try to make the point that MtF individuals have a physical advantage due to growing up as a male.
I would counter that point by saying physical advantages exist all throughout sports, regardless of sex or gender. Someone like Romelu Lukaku has a massive physical advantage over someone like Joe Allen. Or someone like Van Dijk or Haaland vs Youri Tielemans. Should they not be allowed to play in the same league?
Removing politics from the equation, on a purely sporting level when you consider the greatest ever women's team cannot compete with random u15 boys academies, the astronomical advantage this would give just wouldn't be fair.
Trans-men are men.
Trans-women are women.
Don't want to play? Forfeit.
Cunts.
Fucking hell, the transphobia.
By the rules listed in the article, it would appear that she’s allowed to play.
If a team doesn’t want to take the field, they are free to forfeit the match. That’s how the sport works.
So yeah, looks like it’s not a complex issue after all.
How can someone with physical abilities of a man play in a womens division?
The physical attribute of that player gives him/her huge advantage over others. Especially when womens football is relatively developing right now.
People hated on him at the time but Joe rogan was big on this. Biological men were fighting women in MMA and beating the shit out of them.
#🍿
As they should do, this bullshit needs to stop going on.
Give them their own division and be done with it, it’s unfair for these women and is damaging the growth of the sport.
As a trans woman who plays recreational football for a womens/nonbinary inclusive club, cisgender women regularly outpace, outmuscle, outjump, and generally outplay me. It is exactly the same in the other contact sport I play.
The divide is not as dramatic as it’s made out to be, and the assumption that every trans player is inherently better due to biology does a disservice to cis female athletes who are more than capable of competing equally. Nobody talks about how the only transfeminine weightlifter at the 2020 Olympics came last.
I'm enjoying the people telling the one trans woman here, that is actually involved in women's sport, that she's wrong.
Ain't that like them... The same people who will go on to never watch a women's match either.
I'm a cis guy who gets regularly outpaced during races by women. Don't see why there should be a women's category at all, the divide is not as dramatic as it's made out to be
Maybe ur just shit at sport, because the divide is absolutely massive. I played for a completely average mens team, and at 16 we beat our counties female under 18 team so badly we completely flipped our team, putting our cb and keeper up top just to keep it remotely unembarassing
A lot of people forget that the reason women's sports in general are behind is due to money and mysogyny. Women's football wasn't recognised by the FA until 1970 so it made it almost impossible for women to organise and play. They've had to start in 1970 where men started in 1860.
Honestly it's part of why it isn't as popular as it could be but are you honestly saying that they'd be equal in popularity compared to the men if not for this?
Why isn't this the case in other countries then? England has by far the most popular womens football despite this, how come it's not more popular in say Sweden, Germany, Spain etc?
Its fine at the recreational level, eg. pickup basketball or football. However these are athlete careers and women should have a fair opportunity at that. The men's league should be renamed open and allow athletes for all genders, while women's leagues should be kept bio women.
This thread is really showing r/soccer's bad side huh
It’s cuz you’re just trash
Anecdotes don't work in this context. If we look at the two biological genders, we see a clear distinction in which one displays a higher level of "traditional" athleticism.
There should be an open category and a female category.
As for the case of FtM then they would have to play in the open category as that would be the same as doping if they were to play in the female category
There should be an open category and a female category.
that's how tons of sports work (like chess and... the NFL). and imho, it's totally fair.
in chess, for example, men dominate. but once in a while, you have someone like Judit Polgár.
This reaaaally shouldn’t be a complex situation at all, if anything each gender should have their own category. Ie male,female or trans. But then the trans community is rediculously small, so I doubt that be able to have their own
It’s a complex issue that doesn’t have 1 simple answer. You cant ban all trans women from women’s sport - what about people that began transitioning before puberty? It’s not exactly something that hasn’t been debated before, so the FA really need to already have some guidelines in place.
What about women (like Caster Semenya) that have a naturally higher concentration of testosterone? The issue could fall down then on players essentially refusing to play because they think someone is trans.
I hadn’t even looked at it from that POV, your comment is correct in many ways.
A trans division doesn’t make any sense as you’d have the same exact biological problem with ftm playing mtfs. So clearly it isn’t fairness that you care about unless you just didn’t think about it
mhmm that’s a very valid point! I hadnt even looked at it from that way. And fairness is competing with your OWN biological gender. Unless it’s a mixed sport
maybe dont let biological males compete in biological female sports. science deniers really need to get their heads checked.
There should be at least 3 categories.
Biological Males, Biological Females, Free for all (everyone can compete regardless of gender)OR they could have various trans categories the same way the special Olympics has different levels of handicap.
Just make the male one open for all.
That way mtf athletes can just compete vs men, they wouldn't have an advantage then.
Hang on so the ladies don't want to play against man who can hit a ball so hard it's caused injuries?
Why isn't he / she / whatever just playing with other men?
Mediocre white women behaving like mediocre white women again I see
This is only a 'complex issue' because of the current social climate, biological men and women compete seperatly for obvious reasons. Just look at the mixed sex swimming relay in the Olympics as an example.
Not complex in any way
Okay find an answer that isn't discriminatory towards trans people
Curious to see if the USA Women's team is gonna jump in on this.
^CHELSEA
CHELSEA
CHELSEA
#CHELSEA
I’m sure r/soccer will have a nuanced discussion about a complex issue.
If being trans automatically makes you a dramatically superior athlete then why is playing in the Sheffield & Hallamshire County league?
It's pretty normal for lower league players to get injured by powerful shots. I've seen happen loads of times. A shot striking your limb at the wrong moment will break it and end your season.
I can definitely understand peoples worry about the effect trans athletes have on certain womans sports. I get that transmen and transwomen might have to play in the mens divisions, but this incident seems like panic sparked by a fairly standard injury.
Man, people here are really dumb. Cavemen after cavemen.
Whats so complex about it? Penis + testes = mens game , vaggie + booba = womans game
Maybe they should play better if they're so worried about losing to the other team.
I’m sure r/soccer is equipped to have a nuanced discussion about this
This is such a difficult situation. In an ideal world, trans people should be able to play with whoever.
There really just needs to be leagues for trans people at this point, there needs to be a safe space for trans people to compete without discrimination, and without potentially injuring people.
I honestly don't know if I have that strong of an opinion about this, as I'm not truly educated on how this stuff really works, but whether trans people are allowed to compete with their own gender or not, there needs to be leagues for trans people.
Side note, a season ending knee injury from a shot? I wonder how that works.
Start a mental illness division.
Getting in before this gets locked. What’s up y’all?
Good on them
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