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submitted 3 days ago by merdaverse@lemmy.world to c/memes@lemmy.ml
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[-] mecen@lemmy.ca 26 points 3 days ago
[-] ignotum@lemmy.world 7 points 2 days ago

They got rid of their monarchs, so there's noone left to tell them to eat cake

[-] roguetrick@lemmy.world 69 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Be aware, very old people die from this as a secondary cause from a primary of Alzheimer's and other dementias. They just stop eating. It's a misleading statistic to use to identify poverty based malnutrition. It's a very common diagnosis in terminal patients. And the way US billing works, getting the most diagnosis codes recorded is important for reimbursement. It's likely the cause for this disparity.

Edit: yeah 2015 is when ICD-10 adoption and cms billing changes went into play. And then the rate quadrupled. This is an artifact of the US's dumb private/public insurance model for end of life as more people gamed the system for reimbursement. The spread of billing practices over time.

[-] grue@lemmy.world 17 points 3 days ago

Why is France also an outlier?

[-] roguetrick@lemmy.world 17 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Dunno. I'm a US nurse. I don't know how France does their death certificates. Wouldn't surprise me that they're more granular though.

[-] marcie@lemmy.ml 40 points 3 days ago
[-] GiorgioPerlasca@lemmy.ml 27 points 3 days ago

"Let them eat cake" moment.

Jokes apart, the children of the rich are obese, the children of the poor are too thin. Both tendencies contribute to malnutrition.

https://globalnutritionreport.org/resources/nutrition-profiles/europe/western-europe/france/

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[-] bratorange@feddit.org 28 points 3 days ago

Is France really so far above the European average? Or am I reading this wrong?

[-] hanabatake@lemmy.ml 46 points 3 days ago

I am french. I already saw these figures and tried to understand why it was like that. The figures might be technically correct but it doesn't make sense to compare them with other countries. 5000 people dying each year of hunger, it would be revolting.

We do not let people die of starvation in France, unless we think it is the best thing to do. We have this concept of "sédation profonde et continue". Assisted suicide is prohibited in France. So people that suffer from uncurable decease can stop receiving food and hydratation until they die. They continue to receive painkiller or are even put in coma because letting them die that way is legal and considered the most human thing to do. A french christian newspaper wrote an article about it End of life: Are we really letting patients to die of hunger and thirst in France?. They are really opposed to assisted suicide and even them are OK with this process. So technically, we are letting people die of hunger.

About people suffering from hunger, we have food bank to help them, meal costs 1€ at university... It is far from perfect but we are not letting people die like the figures would let imagine.

About overseas regions, it is not that poor. The poorest overseas region, Mayotte, has been mostly destroyed by a cyclone two years ago. Both public services and NGOs thanks to a lot of donation reacted quickly to avoid famine. The situation is still bad but people are not starving.

Hope I answer the question

[-] richardwallass@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 day ago

Very interesting. Thank you.

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[-] expatriado@lemmy.world 15 points 3 days ago

things don't doing well in the french overseas regions?

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[-] nibbler@discuss.tchncs.de 16 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

You’re mixing two population averages, so you need a weighted calculation.

Let’s approximate first: France has about 67 million people out of roughly 447 million in the European Union, so ≈15% French and 85% non-French.

We set up:

Overall EU rate = weighted average 1.7=0.15⋅8+0.85⋅x

Solve:

1.7=1.2+0.85x 0.5=0.85x x≈0.59

So, among non-French Europeans, the rate is roughly 0.6 per 100,000.

That’s substantially lower than both the French rate (8) and the EU average (1.7), which makes sense given how high the French figure is relative to the rest. Also this is pretty much what I read for Vietnam in this chart.

thanks France, for ruining our numbers!

Edit: somewhere in this thread someone from France gives a perfectly good reason and connects the high starvation rate to assisted suicide. Which shines it's light on another problem but very well explains and justifies the "starvation rate" - making this graph/comparison even more absurd.

[-] atopi@piefed.blahaj.zone 7 points 3 days ago

it says Europe though, not the European Union

if you click the question mark near the Europe statistic, it says it also includes countries like Russia and the UK which mess with the statistic a lot

[-] nibbler@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 3 days ago

good point, makes the comparison even worse %-)

[-] merdaverse@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago

Dunno what you're trying to prove here, apart from "removing an outlier from the data makes the data closer to the average", which is pretty obvious.

But you can clearly see that the graph shows Europe, not EU, so using your same calculation with the population of Europe, which is 745 million and excluding France, the result is 1.13.

Also I don't see any indication that OurWorldInData is using an average of countries (which would be stupid). Considering their jobs are statistics, they probably know how to aggregate per population, aka a weighted average.

[-] ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml 21 points 3 days ago

Vietnam undefeated

[-] merdaverse@lemmy.world 14 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

I see that some people try to attribute this to older population and/or Alzheimer, but even by those metrics the countries above are pretty close and wouldn't justify such a big gap:

As for the reliability of data, it's from a peer reviewed study by an American university. If they had a way to make the China data look worse, I'm sure they wouldn't hesitate.

[-] roguetrick@lemmy.world 7 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

You wouldn't expect more (or less) primary causes if more secondary causes were reported in multifactorial deaths. I'd imagine the fact that in the US CMS adopted ICD-10 in 2015 and the rapid rise after would make that obvious enough. Unless you believe there's some pre-COVID etiology for malnutrition that explains the jump I'm not seeing.

[-] bennieandthez@lemmygrad.ml 13 points 3 days ago
[-] ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml 8 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Probably because France counts their colonies as part of France. Mayotte specially has to be contributing to this

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[-] Dadifer@lemmy.world 12 points 3 days ago

Yeah, but those are poor people, so 🤷‍♂️

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this post was submitted on 29 Apr 2026
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