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One ethnostate as a treat (thelemmy.club)
submitted 6 months ago by to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world
12 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Image description:

"Preaching to the mob" meme template based on SrGafo's comic. First panel: Person standing on a rock: "I'm in favor of a genocidal ethnostate"
Second panel: Reaction shot of a mob with an assortment pitchforks and other weapons looks really angry. Each figure is marked with the German flag emoji.
Third panel: Person standing on the rock: "For european jews" Fourth panel: The mob looks really happy.

all 12 comments

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[–] 8 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

It's literally that simple, but many Westerners who choose to be one of/on the side of the world's villains don't seem to grasp it and I don't know why.

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    [+] -15 points 6 months ago (10 children)

    Aren't every modern state are ethnostate ? I They just call it "nationality"

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  • [–] [S] 17 points 6 months ago* (7 children)

    States can have different aims of the structuie their peoples should have. Liberal capitalist states currently state that they ignore ethnicity in the makeup of their peoples, as long as they can help the nation in the international competition.

    Nazi-Germany had a strong focus on having some sort of ethnic monoculture in the makeup of the German people.

    Israel strait up states that it doesn't value arabic lives and favours ashkenazi jews. They claim to be "the one jewish state" and actively draw jewish people to settle there.

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  • [–] 9 points 6 months ago

    And then horribly mistreat some of them, e.g. those of Ethiopian ancestry (there was a whole forced sterilization scandal). They really just want Jews of European, North African, and Arab ancestry, and even then they prefer the Europeans.

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  • [–] -4 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    So like Palestine?

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 6 months ago* (2 children)

    Please elaborate what you mean. I don't get it.

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  • [–] -5 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    People call Israel an ethnostate in a derogatory way, when Palestine is the same thing. It's a state for a certain ethnicity - Palestinians. And they too call for Palestinians to return to it. But when it's Palestine people call it national liberation.

    I don't want to say the Israeli government aren't racist right-wing assholes that are committing genocidal war crimes. I simply think it's somewhat stupid to criticise Israel for something (ethnostate = bad) when Palestine is basically doing the same thing.
    You get me?

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 6 months ago

    I was criticising Germany and Israel. You're talking about what people supporting Palestine supposedly want. So that's already off-topic.

    Palestine is the same thing. It's a state for a certain ethnicity - Palestinians.

    That would be correct, if I was advocating for a palestinian state, or a two-state-solution. I'm in fact in favour of the no-state solution for Palestine. If there has to be a state, then it clearly should be multi-national one (like Switzerland, or Lebanon).

    Wanting Palestine to be free does not automatically mean that you want there to be a different state to brutalize the people.

    Also, palestinians were already at least multi-religious. There are palestinian muslims, jews and christians. Israel binds it's ethnic program to judaism.

    And they too call for Palestinians to return to it.

    Refugees have a right to have a historic wrong made right again. They mustn't be kept from returning if they want.

    But when it's Palestine people call it national liberation.

    You can (and should) also call for antinational liberation. Or even a global intifada (internationalist movemet). Both aren't nationalist.

    I simply think it's somewhat stupid to criticise Israel for something (ethnostate = bad) when Palestine is basically doing the same thing.

    What? Please tell me about the genocide Palestine is supposedly carrying out at the moment. You're embarrassing yourself with that "both sides bad" platitude.

    You get me?

    Yeah. Cringe take, as I was afraid it would turn out to be.

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  • [+] -6 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Liberal capitalist states currently state that they ignore ethnicity in the makeup of their peoples, as long as they can help the nation in the international competition.

    If I'm understanding this sentence correctly, you are saying that modern state could exist without discriminating people regarding of their ethnicity. That's incorrect, but first we may be clarified some definitions : their is no scientific differences between nations, ethnicities or races. Those word define group of people with an arbitrary definition. However, nations is usually used for a recognized group (by law for example), and ethnicities is commonly used to define people see as "primal".

    Nations are social construct, usually based on genocide. Every modern state with a nation have disciminized, secregate or exterminate people who do not fit in the category of the national identity : gypsies, local minoritues, jews, ...

    Their is a specific history of nationality in germany ("volk"), however even in the most "liberal capitalist state", the nationality is somewhat linked with a national identity, a parent, or a place of birth. The only place that came in my mind that may not have a "blood" related access to nationality is the UK. However this a rare case of multi-national state, with some other way of discriminate people based on their nationality (i.ethe Ireland)

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  • [–] [S] 6 points 6 months ago

    If I'm understanding this sentence correctly, you are saying that modern state could exist without discriminating people regarding of their ethnicity.

    No, I said that they state that this is what they do. I said that this was their claim. I didn't claim that this was correct.

    their [sic] is no scientific differences between nations, ethnicities or races.

    That's true. But the concept doesn't have to be scientifically valid to be a reason for discrimination or privilege. Jim Crow and the Nuremberg race laws simply referred to what was considered race science at the time.

    Nations are social construct,

    True, but that doesn't negate anything

    usually based on genocide.

    that's sure as shit not how states present themselves, though.

    Let's take Germany as an example: There is a high percentage of german mitizens of Turkish decent who have been living in Germany for generations. Many of those people have German citizenship. Sure, there's still racist discrimination going on, but these people are german, as far as the state is concerned. It's actually illegal in Germany to discriminate people based on ethnicity, so technically, only the passport should be taken into consideration.

    The meme is mainly based on how Germany presents itself.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    No. Citizenship/nationality is not the same as ethnicity.

    An ethnostate is a state where only one ethnicity is allowed and all other ethnicities must either leave, have their rights stripped from them or die.

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  • [–] -2 points 6 months ago

    Well, according to your definition, Israel is not an ethnostate, neither Nazi-Germany. In both cases, other nationalities are tolerated but with less right (i.e tourism, forced labor). So I do not agree with this definition, even though their is a national supremacy.

    I didn't mix the citizenship and nationality on purpose. People are radicalized even with citizenship, and th upper-class could access to citizenship even without being assigned to a nationality.

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