this post was submitted on 22 Jun 2023
151 points (100.0% liked)

Technology

38590 readers
584 users here now

A nice place to discuss rumors, happenings, innovations, and challenges in the technology sphere. We also welcome discussions on the intersections of technology and society. If it’s technological news or discussion of technology, it probably belongs here.

Remember the overriding ethos on Beehaw: Be(e) Nice. Each user you encounter here is a person, and should be treated with kindness (even if they’re wrong, or use a Linux distro you don’t like). Personal attacks will not be tolerated.

Subcommunities on Beehaw:


This community's icon was made by Aaron Schneider, under the CC-BY-NC-SA 4.0 license.

founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
 

I've been a long time Redditor and an Apollo user for about a year. I even paid for it. The main draw for me was the lack of advertising. In the back of my head I kept thinking that it couldn't last. Reddit is losing revenue from the lack of advertising views. It didn't

To me, Reddit's sky high pricing for the use of the API is intended to kill off apps like Apollo and for its users to move to the advertising filled web site or its own app, which I've never used.

If Huffman came out and said this was a revenue move right off would everyone be as upset as they are? Are people upset because Huffman completely mishandled the move or because they got their ad free experience turned off? If Reddit had an app the same quality as Apollo only with ads, would they be OK with it. I've only used Apollo so I can't speak to the other apps.

I can't blame Reddit for wanting to make money. It doesn't make a profit. Investors have to keep pouring in money to keep it going. They're going to want to see a return on their investment at some point. Usually they cash in on an IPO, but IPO's are generally only successful if the corporation looks like it will be profitable or at least the stock price continues to go up. That's how capitalism works.

In my case, I probably would have left regardless. I can't stand adds in my feed. I probably wouldn't have heard of lemmy or kbin if there hadn't been such an uproar. So I'm glad it went the way it did.

(page 2) 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] Limeade@beehaw.org 4 points 2 years ago

I can't stand ads, but ad blocking is easy enough. I decided to leave because Reddit is only leaving me with terrible interfaces to use. I browse it to pass time on my phone, I'm not about to lug out my whole laptop or move over to a desktop to keep using the site with old Reddit + RES. All the terrible CEO comments since the announcement just make it easier because the tiny, niche non-Nazi alternatives are suddenly large and bustling platforms.

[–] kingthrillgore@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago (2 children)

The option they should have gone for was to put the onus of 3PA on users: Either you pay for reddit premium or you use the app. This would have worked out more and I absolutely would pay a fair price to keep using Boost. This is what they should have done.

But, they didn't. And then offered a tight window, and that's why we're here.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] NoIWontPickaName@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I have not heard anyone, other than articles trying to lead the narrative, say that it should be free.

It was always how much and how long they had to adapt.

Plus all the lies

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Jcb2016@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I was the founder of a 73k sub API the API rules changed I used Apollo and rif the AMA came decided to protest from the 12th to the 14th came back after the day of the 14th my subscribers said shut it down. I shut it down then u/spez did that leaked memo then I decided to delete my 350k 6 years front page 5x account. It was tuff but I got kbin, Lemmy and Mastodon to help me fill the void. Yes I know I only need one account but it's a personal preference l!

[–] HappyMeatbag@beehaw.org 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I can’t blame reddit for wanting to be profitable,either. They just went about it in the worst, most confrontational way possible. They insulted the people who gave reddit all of its content, and alienated their core users.

Even if Huffman had been nicer about it, though, no amount of diplomacy would make up for the fact that their API pricing is ridiculous. Nor would it make their complete inflexibility and stubbornness more palatable. The arrogance and disrespect they’ve shown is astounding. Trying to “fix” that with pretty words, but without actually changing their plans, would be like trying to polish a turd.

I think there would still be a massive protest. The only difference would be the tone.

[–] BendyBee@beehaw.org 4 points 2 years ago

In a nutshell:

Imagine if you own a nice Jaguar - keep it in your garage and let the neighbours borrow it to go to the shops. Now you need to do some maintenance, and make up for losses in your taxi service (which might cost $2 per km) so you wanna price this as a premium service. ... so you could charge them $5 takeout fee plus $1 per km, or (if you're greedy) just go for $5 per km.

What Reddit did is say 'Fuck you, you want to use it, you pay $100 per km or fuck off - we don't care'.

The amount of money Reddit makes for you getting advertisements is actually less than $1 per km... The same occurs with YouTube. If you actually click to donate, then you can pay enough to cover thousands of hours of advertisements in one small swipe.

What we need is MICROpayments spread across a wider user-base to balance the ad-supported platform, and then people will accept that small payments are better.

[–] bloop@beehaw.org 4 points 2 years ago

I would be happy to pay a fair price to remove ads and gain access to 3rd party apps. They should just bake that into the Reddit Gold perks.

[–] rm_dash_r_star@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

It wasn't what they did it was how they did it. If they wanted to I'm sure they could have worked out a comprise where everyone stayed happy.

A good way to foster resentment is to profit off a bunch of mods and devs donating time for love of community and then spit in their face by forcing them out. I think it's one the most blatantly asshole things I've ever seen a corporation do, one for the history books.

I do wonder if it will really make a difference. I think it might be their undoing. Social media users are a somewhat fickle bunch and can move on to the next big thing, that's historically been the case.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Bobo_Palermo@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago

Nobody is against them making money, but personally it was just the iicong omn the cake. The censorship was my biggest issue, then they started requiring emails, etc....losing my apps and then threatening mods was it.

[–] ArugulaZ@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Well, that might have helped, but Paint Hufferman decided to insult us all and treat us as useless, even parasitic freeloaders when WE are the ones who, in concert, built that goddamned site. He was never going to show any respect for us or what we've accomplished... to him, we're livestock. Fuck him with a hot lead pipe.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Steve@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago

I personally would be a paying subscriber to Apollo right now if Reddit had announced they were going to charge a reasonable amount of money for the API. I totally understand how a massive website like that and all the servers and storage required must have cost a fortune. Paying to avoid ads is cool with me… cutting off my access to the best way to use Reddit is not.

[–] BrooklynMan@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (5 children)

The app devs, including Selig, often, said they were perfectly fine and found it quite reasonable that Reddit wanted to charge for API access-- they even looked forward to it because the y believed it would. open up access to previously walled-off parts of the API such as chat, polls, and other features only available in the native app and the website. This was public info, and users also looked forward to this.

The problem came with both he outrageous pricing and the absurd 30-day timeframe. Then, further with spez's refusal to be flexible by listening to the reasonable complaints of the devs, slanderous accusations against Selig, profound and entitled disrespect towards the mods, and shitshow parade which started with his mind-boggling AMA and then continuing by taking interviews with any news agency that would talk to him, further spreading the lies, slander, disrespect, and disinformation-- ending by praising the king turd of tech: Elon Musk.

THAT is what provoked the outrage, protests, and overall "uprising". THAT is what is killing Reddit.

load more comments (5 replies)
[–] snowbell@beehaw.org 3 points 2 years ago

Didn't reddit used to be profitable? I think we should start by asking what decisions they made that reduced their profitability. Is it the video player that nobody asked for? Deciding to self-host images? Developing an app that nobody wants to use? It seems to me like they put themselves in this position.

[–] Breakpr0d@aussie.zone 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I think it is within the company's right to revenue increasing opportunities. That said I view the slandering of the Apollo creator as the turning point. It was very poor taste and their communication around this has been horrendous. It kick started the migration to the fediverse and a critical mass has adopted it. So now there is no good reason to go back to Reddit even if they reverse their decisions. Heck, had there been a different stimulant to fediverse adoption without any missteps from Reddit, I would still have transitioned my usage to a system where the users are more in control.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] TheElectroness@beehaw.org 3 points 2 years ago

That IS what happened, in april.

What happened this month is that the API users (aka 3rd party authors) expressed their dismay at trying to work with reddit's announced changes or getting any movement out of reddit that would allow them to continue.

[–] patchw3rk@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (11 children)

I'm not entirely sure why Reddit was going to charge outlandish fees for the third-party APIs. Looks like none of the apps are actually going to pay them, so he's not getting anything out of it. It's really a combination of pushing them out of the market and then being a smug little bitch that really nailed it in the coffin for a lot of people.

[–] deong@kbin.social 2 points 2 years ago

They don’t want the developers to pay anything. They want the developers gone so that all the users are monetizeable through ads.

[–] ZealousIdeaPool@kbin.social 2 points 2 years ago

Looks like none of the apps are actually going to pay them, so he's not getting anything out of it.

But that is exactly what his goal was. If he really was interested in working with the 3PA devs, this would have been handled completely differently. The fact that it was handled as it was, with essentially zero engagement between the company and the community, and with essentially zero flexibility on the part of the company on the implementation, is pretty clear evidence that their goal all along was to drive the 3PA's out of business.

load more comments (9 replies)
[–] Scio@kbin.social 2 points 2 years ago

That is exactly what he said. It's just not remotely what he intended. Bad faith etc.

[–] fupuyifi@kbin.social 2 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Reddit needing to make $ to maintain the resources is understandable.

There were other ways to generate revenue without being greedy.
For example, users pay for awards like gold etc on Reddit. This concept could have expanded to a marketplace for 3PA stickers. If 3PA apps have stickers that they were pushing as additional revenue for the developers, Reddit could have stepped in and developed a marketplace to host and promote them for the developers as well. It would be a similar model to the Google Play and Apple App stores taking a commission for in app purchases. It doesn't have to be in the vicinity of 30% either. It's not a perfect example by any means, so don't flame me or the idea.

I deleted all of my accounts, posts and comments after the clusterfuck of an AMA. The interviews Huffman gave the following week to The Verge and other media sites totally reinforced my decision not to go back. I still go back to get some tech resources that I need but it's through alternative addresses so I don't add to their analytics stats.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] MangoPenguin@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

IMO the issue that people are upset about, and as a result all the publicity going on, is just related to how much they wanted to charge people for the API.

If they rolled out something reasonable for pricing, and allowed people to use their own individual API keys in third party apps on a free tier, I think a few would have complained here and there, but otherwise it would have been fine.

Obviously they need to make money to pay for costs of running things somehow, there's nothing wrong with that.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments