cross-posted from: https://lemmy.zip/post/50130760

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[–] 45 points 11 months ago (2 children)

If signal pulls out of Europe we're in a pretty fucked state. Apps like signal will be reduced to operations it a few fringe countries eventually

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  • [–] 31 points 11 months ago* (2 children)

    Signal is nice because it has a pretty good adoption rate even with non techies (which is why they've been mentioned by name in the chat control proposal). But privacy enthusiasts will still have briar/simplechat/xmpp. Those aren't centralised like Signal and will be a lot harder to regulate

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  • [–] 31 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    ChatControl 2.0, if passed means your entire device is backdoored so it doesn’t matter what apps you installl, they can get your info pre-encryption

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  • [–] 15 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Custom roms is your best bed at that point. I do use GOS already.

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  • [–] 22 points 11 months ago* (2 children)

    It's great as long as you can guarantee that the person you're communicating on the receiving side does the same. Otherwise it's useless as your messages will be read on the receiving device. In practice it will make private communication extremely cumbersome and niche.

    Also, the authorities can backdoor your custom ROM device at will, when seized.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Steganography. There’s more than one way to protect your communication.

    And encryption in transit is better than no encryption at all (assuming the baddies don’t already have full access to your phone data).

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    assuming the baddies don’t already have full access to your phone data

    That's the whole point of Chat Control 2.0

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

    Not quite; Chat Control hearkens back to Apple’s doomed attempt at on-device CSAM filtering - the idea is that on-device images and message contents would be scanned for known hashes. This means a nation state could go fishing on devices for known content, but it wouldn’t allow them to indiscriminately sift through all the content at rest — they’d have to know what they were looking for.

    That’s where the steganography comes in, because the hash based approach will fail if the content they’re looking for is obscured in some manner.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Unless you outlaw alternative ROMs some devices will be not backdoored.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago* (1 child)

    They will begin so, but the regulation means the authorities can backdoor your device way easier than they can today. It doesn't mean your custom ROM device will be free of the scanning software forever.

    It also means that you need to know that the receiving device you're communicating with is clean custom ROM device, otherwise your messages will be scanned on the receiving side.

    The regulation is a complete shitshow privacy nightmare hiding under CSAM trenchcoat. We'd do well to organize and fight against it, instead of trying to back down to the perceived safety of esoteric custom ROMs.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    I like to be in control of what happens on the hardware I own and what services I use. If given no choice I will cease using them altogether. I agree that the law is an absolute shitshow, but with the recent speedrun to totalitarianism we should not fool ourselved that it won't be passed. It will be, eventually. It doesn't hurt to start digging the trenches meanwhile. For it is a war.

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  • [–] 10 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    You won't be able to install those apps soon after Android bans sideloading of apps that aren't signed, or bans sideloading of apps that are not from the playstore itself.

    What then?

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  • [–] 12 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    I don't think privacy enthusiasts use vanilla Android. People will stick to Lineage/Graphene for as long as it works and then switch to something like Postmarket. It's already in a state where it's rough but usable.

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  • [–] 10 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Europe: Companies can't lock down your operating system.

    Also Europe: Companies must force back doors into their operating systems.

    I wonder how long those two things can coexist.

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  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Well, Google’s current behaviour is already putting the future existence of F-Droid into question.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    We need FOSS phones badly and in numbers that manufacturing isn't horrible. That is until our governments force carriers not to connect them.

    If I could find a reasonably priced 8" Linux tablet, I'd sell my phone and buy a cellular wifi AP.

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  • [–] 35 points 11 months ago*

    Canary coal mine kind of signal (pardon the pun)

    Edit: they also obviously do not have a choice. If they legally must weaken their work and the core of their work is that it's not weak... then they have no work. So they can't accept it.

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  • [–] 18 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    I always threaten to pull out, but I never do

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  • [–] 10 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Signal does not have a large enough userbase to threaten something like this. EU will just shrug and move on.

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  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago

    This is the right choice.

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  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago
    [–] 6 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Shocker. I do however wonder what prevents someone from downloading and installing the apk to their phone. Am I wrong in believing this is a real way to bypass them leaving a market?

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  • [–] 33 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    what prevents someone from downloading and installing the apk to their phone

    google.

    https://www.androidsage.com/2025/08/26/google-blocks-sideloading-of-android-apps/

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    So first step is installing an alternative phone OS then.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

    yeah, except according to my understanding of the topic, there is not much adult alternatives. graphene will have the same problem.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    If you are running Android Open Source Project without Google Play Services, Google has no control. However, manufacturers could be pressured into locking bootloaders and then no one gets AOSP or GrapheneOS at all.

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  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 child)

    Doesn't Signal work with phone numbers? They will probably block every EU number from accessing the service to protect themselves legally. Maybe you could use something like jmp.chat to circumvent that? Probably need a VPN as well to mask your IP. In any case, it will decimate the user base, so you're left chatting with yourself anyway.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago

    Please check out https://fightchatcontrol.eu/ if you want to take action against this.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago* (3 children)

    I don't understand how this "threat" is supposed to work. If the law passes won't any and all chat encryption be affected? In that case it doesn't matter how you get the app, or if you manage to get it in europe. Its encryption will be broken/unavailable.

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  • [–] 25 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Laws don't magically break encryption. I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

    They're trying to force Signal to weaken the application, Signal says they won't do it.

    They can ban Signal for not complying, but you know how difficult it is to ban a digital application? It might make it more popular since it'll be one of very few actually secure messaging apps out there.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago* (1 child)

    I imagined the law would be enforced by a deal with google and some global android state approved keylogger/backdoor completely bypassing all apps including Signal. But yeah, I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around this.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    Recently Google announced they were going to restrict certified Android devices to only allowing apps approved by Google. An F-Droid member found references to "blocked developers" in the new verification code. It's not unreasonable to assume that this developer blocklist could be region-dependent and Google could use this ability to block Signal from being installed in EU.

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    I suspect that signal will be asked to add a backdoor to their encryption, they will refuse and subsequently banned from EU app stores.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago* (1 child)

    banned from EU app stores

    What even is that? Aren't the 2 app official app stores American anyway?

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    Anywhere to petition or digitally sign?

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