-17
Falseflagception (lemmy.ml)
submitted 11 months ago by to c/memes@lemmy.ml
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[–] 9 points 11 months ago (3 children)

"No guys, it's ok when Russia unapologetically invades a foreign country for oil, because you see that country is part of the west and west = bad"

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  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    No you see it's okay when Ukraine conducts a literal campaign of derussification in a region they also keep bombarding, cultural genocide is only something the evil see see pee does

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  • [–] -1 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    You're really gonna say the attempts to distance themselves from the culture of their previous colonizers and current invaders is genocide?

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    The Donbass region is largely ethnically Russian, and has been systematically oppressed by Kiev, including erasure of the Russian language, and outright massacres following the secession of Donetsk and Luhansk post-Euromaidan.

    Additionally, the USSR never colonized Ukraine, neither did the Russian Federation. The Banderites that took over Ukraine in 2014 are far-right nationalists, and as such are useful for NATO.

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  • [–] -3 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    First off, the donbas is not majority russian. While it has the largest group of Russians in the country it is still majority Ukrainian.

    Second, the ICJ and international association of genocide scholars investigated Russia's claim of massacre and genocide and found them to be entirely baseless and fabricated to justify invasion.

    Third, if this was about liberating the donbas, then Russia wouldn't have gone all the way to Kyiv at the beginning of the invasion. Even still Russia occupies far more than the donbas.

    I swear the way some of yall rush to defend Russia. You guys realize it's not socialist anymore, right? That the country is ruled and controlled by capitalists? That capital interests like the oil in ukraine are what drive them?

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  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    I didn't say the Donbass was majority Russian, I said it's largely Russian, which is true. This is especially important considering it was added to Ukraine by the Soviet Union, and wasn't considered Ukrainian beforehand.

    Secondly, the civil war between Kiev and the Donbass region has been widely recorded and reported on. The advent of the Russo-Ukrainian War put that into the background, so that the west can pretend history started in 2022, but that's false.

    Third, the war is not about "liberating the Donbass region." It's about Russia securing the biggest land bridge into their territory, the Donbass region, and ensuring NATO neutrality. Demillitarizing Ukraine is a secondary goal for that second goal. Getting more territory than the Donbass region and destroying as much millitary equipment as possible ensures that Russia's stated goals are met, and improves their bargaining position.

    This isn't a war of good vs evil, the world doesn't work in such Marvel terms. Russia has consistent and clear goals, it isn't some evil group of evildoers doing evil.

    No, Marxists do not think Russia is still socialist. At the same time, it's abundantly clear that this isn't about oil, it's about defending against NATO encirclement. If it was about oil, then it's clear that losing customers by going to war would backfire, and that was clear before the war. There's no evidence that this is a war for extraction, despite what the pro-NATO crowd protests.

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  • [–] -3 points 10 months ago* (1 child)

    So are you saying that Russia is justifiably killing Ukrainian civilians, using rape as part of warfare, kidnapping Ukrainian children en masse and in general attacking civilian targets like hospitals, schools etc.?

    Are we going to pretend Russia are the good guys in this scenario, and Ukraine is in the wrong for defending their borders? If this was only about the Donbass then why hasn’t Russia even attenpted to negotiate? Why take the kids? Why rape the townsfolk? Why start with invasion? And most importantly what the fuck are you smoking ’cos I’d like to have me some of that stuff too..

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago* (1 child)

    No, I am not saying that, because a large part of what you've said is sensationalized, or outright wrong. For example:

    1. There have been numerous peace talks between Russia and Ukraine, but the west has stepped in to keep things going.

    2. There isn't systemic kidnapping. When children are left behind, they are given food and a place to stay, and many are returned when they can be.

    3. There is not systemic rape. Rape is occuring on both sides, unfortunately, but it isn't a systemic strategy.

    4. Civilian deaths have been relatively low overall, actually, compared to other conventional wars, though both sides have begun targetting energy infrastructure directly, and Ukraine's army is more willing to break the geneva conventions (such as the unmarked van drone attack earlier this year).

    5. Russia responded to the Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics' requests for assistance and annexation, when Ukraine had dramatically increased shelling of the Donbass statelets.

    6. Not smoking anything, I'm a communist. My stance is aligned with communist orgs like FRSO's stance and PSL's stance.

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  • [–] 0 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Will look at sources later, will amend stance if necessary but first and foremost: why are you as a communista (an ideology I admire and respect even if I’m not exactly a ”fellow traveller”) alignig yourself with Russia? ”Enemy of my enemy is my friend” kind of thing

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 child)

    This is one of the more complex issues hotly debated among communists these days, but 2 years into the SMO the overall stance among Marxist-Leninist and ML-adjacent orgs is pro-SMO. A few of the following reasons can help paint a better picture:

    1. NATO provoked the war as a means to weaken Russia, and open up its capital markets for foreign plunder, similar to the late 90s. What NATO wants is to use Ukraine as an expendable battering ram so that Russia is economically backed into a corner, and must allow western imperialists into their country.

    2. Russia is currently a major trading partner with socialist countries like Cuba, the PRC, and DPRK. It is in the interests of socialists worldwide that Russia not fall to become a western puppet, because trade has dramatically improved conditions in Cuba, the DPRK, and has allowed China to become more independent from the west.

    3. Communism is more popular than ever in Russia. 3 decades on from the dissolution of the USSR, the KPRF is seeing a dramatic upswing in support, as is general soviet nostalgia. Even right-wing nationalists like Putin make references to Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, etc to try to take advantage of rising support for transitioning to socialism. The nationalist bourgeoisie in charge of Russia are walking a thin line right now, a line they could be forced off of in the future. This is heightening because of trade and increased ties with socialist countries and student exchanges, such as between Cuba, the DPRK, and PRC.

    Rising support for socialism

    Russia is a right-wing dictatorship of capital, but it isn't imperialist in the Marxist sense. It is forced into alignment with the global south against the global north, and as a consequence it is one of the most likely countries on the planet to have a socialist revolution in the next decade. The SMO protects them against NATO expansion, and the west has sabotaged peace talks in order to keep the war going.

    If you want to learn more about Marxism-Leninism, I made an introductory reading list you can check out if you wish!

    There's also this resource compilation on GenZhou you can check if you want to take a deep dive on the communist perspective of the Russo-Ukrainian War, I kept everything extremely brief.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Despite any possible differences of opinion we might have I honestly do appreciate your responses when you had. All the right in the world to tell me to fuck off.

    For context: Living next to Russia and my country having historical ties to Russia means that I am ”genetically” oppised to anything coming out of the Putin regime

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago

    I'm used to it, haha. This account is mostly for agitprop, I try my best to demystify communism and communist stances, clear up misconceptions about theory, etc. In my experience, those who shittalk communists will get shit thrown back at them anyways on the fediverse, so it's far more useful of me to try to brush any rudeness off and still answer genuinely. I've gained more than a few comrades that way!

    As for your individual circumstance, I totally understand that living in a state where the cultural context around political issues can color your perspective. I'm a Statesian, living in the US Empire, so that impacts what internal misconceptions I've had to overcome as well. Hegemony is one of the more interesting topics in communist thought, perhaps most developed by Gramsci.

    My advice is to try to see where the information you are getting is coming from. Is it the working class, the politicians, capitalists, etc? Working class organizations, be they communist parties or even labor unions, will generally have a much better understanding of current events without being clouded by imperialist propaganda (though some unions are more compromised than others).

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  • [–] 0 points 8 months ago

    Hey I get you. The great northern birdsnest I still call home has taught me since childhood that everything coming out of Russia has been, is and always will be bad. Just your standard rascism, "ryssä on ryssä vaikka voissa paistais" type of shit you know? "We weren't actually nazis despite what we did with who in the war" and other collected denialisms on top of that. Unlearning the capitalist indoctrination is difficult, but I have learned to lend my critical support for the Russian state in the fight against western imperialist hegemony as my understanding of the world increases.

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  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    The state department thanks you for your service patriot

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  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Right, because drawing an allegory to the actions of the United States in the middle east as an example of doing something bad is the best way to praise the states

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  • [–] 11 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Invading for oil Vs invading to stop your mortal enemies from setting up a vassal state on your doorstep

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  • [+] -6 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Right, and the oil is just a coincidence, that just so happened to be there. And the US invaded Iraq because of terrorists and nukes that weren't there, the oil was just a coincidence.

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  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Are we on the same side of the argument? I'm so confused.

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  • [–] -4 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    No, I'm pointing out your hypocrisy in recognizing that Iraqi nukes and the war on terror were largely overplayed to justify the invasion of the middle east for oil but not recognizing when Russia does the same shit in Ukraine. But it seems like you're the type to decide who to support based on a vague tribalist conception of "east vs west" rather than actually having any moral principles to rely on, so I apologize if my criticism of certain eastern and western actions simultaneously is too much for you to handle.

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