I wonder why there was a huge comment to upvote ratio then I saw the person who made this… Yeah T*RFs suck.
CPGB-ML are so, so much worse than TERFs. CPB (and WPUK they keep supporting) are TERFs.
CPGB-ML are against any and all "LGBT ideology" and they will expell members for it. They are against all "identity politics" with very narrow exceptions for women's rights and anti-racism.
I can't find it now but there was a tweet on their official account comparing gay rights to guide dogs for the blind in an attempt to drive home just how frivolous gay rights are, arguing those are not class issues but special group interests - and alienating everyone who cares about either queer liberation or disability justice in one fell swoop.
They are not just tailist, they are full on right-deviationists (patsocs, nazbols, Strasserists, Duginists, etc), and I will die on this hill. They also collaborate with US patsocs and promote them.
Fully on board with smacking down and censoring all CPGB-ML output, to anyone not familiar with British leftist organizing this stance might seem confusing, but trust me when saying this as a lifetime ML-organizer in the UK, they deserve to be fully and unquestionably censored from this platform.
I would genuinely put the failure for any communist party to launch in the last 50 years directly in there (and Tommy Sheridans) hands.
If you would like me to elaborate further on this I'd be happy to do so, but for brevity this is the sum of my opinion.
Please do elaborate!
@ComradePupIvy would likely be interested too but I'm tech illiterate and can't figure out how to @ them.
BTW is this a good article on them? https://www.ebb-magazine.com/essays/inside-the-last-days-of-the-cpgb-ml
Well for one, they welcomed Benes Ayo, a National Bolshevik into their ranks. This should highlight the character and bottom of the barrel scraping this org has to resort to due to alienating the vast majority of the UK left for their insistence on parroting the UK upper classes lines on trans people.
At a time when the UK upper class is implementing segregation in for LGBT+ people, what the fuck are they thinking? It reminds me of the 'US Workers Party' that tried to stamp out Asian communists in the wild west era, or white labour organisers undermining black comrades during Jim Crow era in hope of gaining the upper classes approval, and benefits for enforcing segregation.
Are we seeking the upper classes approval for concessions, or are we communists?
Any org that tolerates open Nazbol's needs to be dismantled.
Tommy Sheridan is self evident from learning about his court cases and sexual harrassment, both represent dinasours of a time of the UK literally no one wants to return too but them (Social Dem era, 1960s-1990s, when gays got sectioned and women could be legally raped, couldnt have bank accounts or drink in pubs)
They direct confused centrists into their orgs by being 'the' communist parties already established and then make socialist progress more difficult by alienating anyone who tries to interact with their orgs in good faith by refusing to remove problematic people from positions of power.
Thank you!
Which UK political party would you recommend joining? I've been circling around CPB hoping they drop their TERF stance but that doesn't seem to be happening any time soon: https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/communist-party-and-young-communist-league-welcome-supreme-court-ruling-definition
I wish I had a good answer for you, I dont have one, they all suck.
I've just stuck to doing direct action for activist groups at this point like with Living Rent or stuff around safe consumption rooms.
Yeah it does look this way, thank you very much comrade.
Looks like the future is in our hands comrade, good luck whatever you do.
FYI I reported this post:
Rule 5: No right-deviationists. CPGB-ML is "socially conservative" and Joti herself is a Caleb Maupin collaborator (she went on his show to spew transphobic hatred).
(Edit) CPGB-ML expels members for "propagation of LGBT ideology":
Congress therefore resolves that the propagation of identity politics, including LGBT ideology, being reactionary and anti-working class and a harmful distraction and diversion from the class struggle of the proletariat for its social emancipation, is incompatible with membership of the party, rendering those involved in its promotion liable to expulsion.
Examples of their reactionary rherotic:
LGBT ideology wants more than equal rights
But, to return to the question of the demands of the self-appointed LGBT activists. Unlike ordinary people who happen to be gay or transgender, they are not happy with simply being allowed to live their lives in peace and without discrimination; it is not just a question of men and women wanting to be accepted even though they’re different.
For the so-called activists, it is a question of going far further than that, to the point of absurdity. Transgender activists want us, for instance, to encourage little boys and little girls who prefer the lifestyle that society offers to people of the opposite sex to the one that accords to their own sex to actually physically mutilate themselves in order to achieve the appearance of a person of the other sex.
https://thecommunists.org/2019/04/20/news/why-gay-rights-is-not-a-class-issue/
The reactionary nightmare of ‘gender fluidity’
Are ‘sex’ and ‘gender’ synonyms? Well they are synonyms, but a certain group of academics in the seventies in the United States decided that they weren’t synonyms. They were going to use ‘gender’ in their own way; they were going to use ‘gender’ to mean the social construct of behaviour surrounding what was expected of the biological differentiation among human beings (men and women).
But biological differentiation between male and female is a real thing. It doesn’t just exist in humanity, it exists in many species throughout the natural world. Sexual reproduction is a natural biological process that has persisted in nature due to the diversity it engenders; it is a phenomenon encountered in the natural world.
Why deny the material reality of gender?
Why did it become a fashion to say there’s no such thing a male and female?
Who is pushing this ideology that there is no such thing as gender? That there is no such thing as sex? That it’s not real?
There is even a movement termed ‘ableism’ or ‘trans-ableism’. There exist people who say: “I look as if I’ve got two arms and two legs, but actually in reality, I feel like I was born disabled.”
https://thecommunists.org/2019/03/23/news/the-reactionary-nightmare-of-gender-fluidity/
‘Transgender rights’ are bourgeois ideology. The whole issue confounds reality. It is pure idealism because the reality is that we cannot choose our identity at will. It is an illusion, a mistake and a crime to teach people to think that they can choose like this, under capitalism.
https://thecommunists.org/2018/12/07/news/the-only-thing-that-unites-us-is-class/
They also voiced their opinion on JK Rowling:
The author’s brave stance in defence of reality must be defended, and her hysterical detractors exposed as the reactionary bullies they are.
And here's them openly promoting US patsocs:
Working-class antiwar rage sends US woke mafia into a head fit
Unlike other self-identifying (and self-neutering) antiwar movements (essentially middle-class ‘left’ rackets in hock to the Democratic party in the USA or the Labour party in Britain), the Rage movement might actually pose a real threat to the establishment.
https://thecommunists.org/2023/03/11/news/usa-working-class-antiwar-rage-woke-mafia-head-fit/
If you missed the whole RATWM thing, here's an explainer: https://www.blackagendareport.com/why-rage-against-war-machine-rally-antiwarsowhite
And lastly here's the YT video I referenced in the report: youtu.be/5v7bWFFLzUY?t=1666
Last time I looked into CPGB-ML was like 5 years ago, but I can see since then Caleb released plenty of interviews with both Joti and Harpal Brar (CPGB-ML chairman) so the collaboration is very official and not a singular lapse of judgement on Joti's part as some people tried arguing back then.
Everything you wrote about Joti Brar and CPGB-ML is true and it is important that people are aware of this, but i don't see how that is grounds for reporting this post.
I don't think the intention of the poster was promoting either the CPGB-ML nor Joti Brar. I haven't watched the video yet but from the title it doesn't seem like it's promoting those reactionary views which you mentioned but rather providing a geopolitical perspective on the Ukraine proxy war and the West's larger obsession with Russia.
In that sense I think it is acceptable so long as the poster adds a content warning that the speaker being platformed has reactionary views on LGBT issues. People share articles and videos from much more reactionary sources than the CPGB-ML. Or do you think that every military or geopolitical analysis that has ever been shared here has always been strictly by pro-LGBT communists?
No. You could as well promote any US patsoc when they stick to the “right topic”. Or any fascist for that matter, they always appropriate some correct leftists stances. Communist spaces shouldn’t platform them even when they parrot the correct line.
As I said, I don't think the poster was intending to promote them in any way.
Neutrality Studies is not a communist outlet and i hope that everyone here is aware of that and approaches any content that they put out with an awareness of the possibility that their guests are going to be people with some reactionary views.
There are many people speaking against russophobia and warmongering, we don't need to post the ones who also speak against "the gays".
When writing the effort post above I skimmed over that RATWM article again, and this stood out to me: "considering the people most impacted by US imperialism and imperialist war have been organizing against it long before these Mises people came along, why haven’t I seen most of these white Latte Leftists engaged in organizing with us? I mean, Black, queer, trans, disabled, Global South, African people will certainly all die should there be a nuclear war"
There are better voices to lift out of obscurity than Joti's.
Should we go and report any post from Al-Jazeera? Or any post that links to western state propaganda in general? Does that count as breaking the "Promoting anti-communism" rule? I think it's a little much to go about reporting people for linking something somebody said, just because we don't like the somebody who said it. I don't see any explicit all encompassing endorsement of this person's reactionary views anywhere in this post.
CPGB-ML are right deviationists so I'll keep reporting them for breaking the rule "no right deviationists". Joti is a prominent "socially conservative" figure on the British "left", posting an interview with her is no different to posting an interview with Hinkle.
From MoreTankieChapo to GenZedong to Lemmygrad there is a cycle of nazbols / patsocs / whatever you wanna call them swarming the space looking to normalise their ideas, getting pushed back, and quieting down for a bit until the next cycle, and I think this is why there's a rule specifically disallowing this content.
I'm not sure why you want to report Al Jazeera, there is no rule against posting from mainstream media.
I’m not sure why you want to report Al Jazeera, there is no rule against posting from mainstream media.
They are a sectarian, anti China, anti Shia propaganda rag that manufactured consent for the destruction of Syria and Libya, yet I see plenty of posts of their articles here, particularly about Palestine, and yet I tolerate it and don't report people for making such posts, because I don't automatically assume the people posting are trying to promote sectarian, anti China views.
Also how do you interpret the rule, do you take it as meaning "We don't want people with such views to be a part of this community and spread their views" or "We don't want people with such views to even be mentioned in this community regardless of why"?
I dont think I agree with you here, when we post any large news org its with an understanding that its just a single slice of perspective on an issue - we should know better as communists that these orgs are always highly biased. Al Jazeera just tends to be the one we goto because it at least presents something closer to the center with the Palestine/Isreal conflict and has some inherent, but narrow value in understanding a vector of the situation. This doesnt excuse anything else they have done, and im sure most of us agree with that.
But with the CPG-ML party when we post stuff thats meant to be 'on side' it is seen more as an endorsement of an orgs views and should be held to a higher standard of critique otherwise we're open to opportunist reactionaries trying to do entryism into us, our party lines are non-negotiable when it comes to trans people and that should go without saying.
we should know better as communists that these orgs are always highly biased.
These orgs are not only highly biased(which is to put it mildly) but mouthpieces/collaborators of fascist governments that have done great damage to plenty of the oppressed in the global south. These western media are as dangerous as the Patsocs because they have even a higher audience to reach to. Al Jazeera is one example and other examples are the BBC, Sky news and other western media. If the goal is not to allow reactionaries trying to do entryism into us or any fascists as mentioned by Red_Scare, I don't we should be lenient with any of these western media as well.
Maybe, a warning might help to have a heads up of the author's(such as CPGB-ML) disgusting views or to make this more productive you could share an alternative to keep the focus on the topic at hand.
I could say all those things about the BBC, the Guardian, etc, and yet there's no rule against posting them. I already explained why I think right deviationists in particular are banned, I might be wrong, I didn't wright those rules this is just how I understand them. This is also what makes sense to me, I think banning New York Times is counterproductive but banning Haz is not.
I could say all those things about the BBC, the Guardian, etc
That is the point, you definitely can, and if we followed the rules the way you did, we'd be reporting every post made out of one of their pieces, that's my point. We do not post anything with the assumption that we are uncritically endorsing everything that has ever been said by the source. And if we do so for some and not others, we give legitimacy to the ones we don't try and ban from our discussions. If this is the intended way we follow these rules, I am much more uncomfortable with Al-Jazeera, Middle East eye, New York times and their ilk being seen as totally fair and productive to post articles from than whoever this small UK party member is.
Nazbols / patsocs pretend to be Marxist-Leninists and there are always some people around ML spaces who sympathise with them. There's nobody here who thinks NYT present the correct Marxist-Leninist line.
If this was posted as "Inteview with Joti Brar the patsoc TERF" I wouldn't report it, alas it's posted as:
Joti Brar of CPGB-ML is the daughter of the late Harpal Brar.
“Neutrality Studies” is some Swiss nonsense, but at least they’ll listen to communists and anti-imperialists.
And Al-Jazeera pretends to be pro Palestine while they're just a state propaganda mouthpiece who's main goal is to get Sunni Muslims to believe everything they say about regimes that "Oppress the true faith".
As much as I would like to see it, I don't report posts from them that don't add "Sectarian Reactionary News Media" added in the title. Because unlike the new york times, there are a lot of outlets who, due to their coverage of the genocide, have lulled many people into thinking they are upstanding and should be listened to. Another example for this is just recently we saw middle east spectator reveal themselves to be Anti-LGBT when they commented on Zohran Mamdani's position on pride. Do we now ignore, report, and block every single thing they report on?
It's not the fault of the user who posts it, neither does it break a rule. I take no issue with your discomfort at CPGB being reactionary, I believe so too.
However it is not against the rules (as they are currently, I do think they could be improved) to post something they say, as long as it is not directly endorsing the party or it's reactionary views. I don't see that here.
I’m not sure why you want to report Al Jazeera, there is no rule against posting from mainstream media.
Al Jazeera has promoted anti communist and pro imperialist propaganda which is a violation of Rule 1. Also, they previously have promoted Pro ISIS propaganda, whitewashed them when they couped Assad by calling them "rebels" and underreported the Alawites massacres(calling any resistance Pro Assad Loyalists).
I wonder if you didn't know this or if you are intentionally minimizing this.
I wonder if you didn’t know this or if you are intentionally minimizing this.
Are you for real? Lol fuck right off
Hey can we keep this somewhat civil. There is no reason to start swearing
You should be aware that pro-western media is outright dehumanizing for non whites and actively promotes the oppressors voice.
But of course, if you are not targeted by the western media, my comment and CommieWolf's would seem exaggerations or non valid comparisons that could be minimized as non serious. Privilege is really a nasty thing that keeps people from having solidarity. It truly blinds people.
Are you for real? Lol fuck right off
No, I won't and I hope you backtrack from this disgusting comment. Do better.
✏ 🗒
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
Neutrality Studies is good because Nima never says anything, and the alt media is only good for promoting (or gatekeeping) better ideas anyways
you are confusing two different outlets
Good god you're right, and this one seems much better. For starters, half of the recent thumbnails are not fucking Scott Ritter
can't stand that guy
😂
I found YouTube links in your post. Here are links to the same videos on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
Link 1:
Link 2:
This is a Dengist community in favor of Bashar al-Assad with no information that can lead to the arrest of Hillary Clinton, our fellow liberal and queen. This community is not ironic. We are Marxists-Leninists.
This community is for posts about Marxism and geopolitics (including shitposts to some extent). Serious posts can be posted here or in /c/GenZhou. Reactionary or ultra-leftist cringe posts belong in /c/shitreactionariessay or /c/shitultrassay respectively.
We have a Matrix homeserver and a Matrix space. See this thread for more information. If you believe the server may be down, check the status on status.elara.ws.
Rules: